I just put my FM3T up against my Ampero Stage II and I’m enlightened.

[KingsXJJ]

Just understand the Beyerdynamics likely require a lot of correction. You can use the global EQ and dig up AutoEQ curves for the headphones.

Actually I bought the DT 900 Pro X’s specifically because they were reported by some reputable folks as not needing much correction unlike other Beyerdynamic models. But I truly appreciate the heads up @laxu

 

[AlbertA]

I went through headphones with amp and cab sims on as well as off going in to my Fender TM Super.

In both cases, I preferred the Hotone. Crazy right? I mean I love Fractal but I had never done up straight comparison between the two. I know some of you must be thinking this guy is deaf and/or can’t play. Maybe. But maybe not. It might be limited to my playback scenarios. It ight be due to what tones I like. I’m not sure.

I am seriously thinking about selling my FM3 and just helping the Stage and AxeFXIII. I’m not basking Fractal in the least nor pushing the Hotone. I did use my best guitars as well. Kind of stunned and surprised. Perhaps my idea of tone and feel is different?

Not that crazy - the market is catching up and its obvious neural nets approach to modeling have really lowered the barrier to entry.

I thought the same thing when I first tried ToneX - it just sounded incredible for the price - sure it has aliasing but I thought it was able to hang with the "big boys" so to speak.

Fractal vs Capture

NOTE: This post isn't meant to speak negatively of anyone's product. It's simply meant to show different attributes found in two types of modeling. All this talk about amp captures lately has made me curious about a couple things. Even though amps, models, and captures are all supposed to...

forum.fractalaudio.com

 

[KingsXJJ]

Well I’ll be! @OrganicZed you Sir, win the internet. The second pair of HPH MT7’s sounded like crap even with the Ohm difference. Which is likely why I never use them and actually gave them away to a non-picky family member. But…

The Beyerdynamic DT 900 Pro X headphones were a huge improvement! HUGE. The FM3T sounded so much better. Tighter lows with nice cabinet thump and refined highs. It sounded great! Here’s the killer bonus in that the Stage sounded better as well but the difference wasn’t as dramatic.

I think you were absolutely right that the Yamaha HPH MT8’s were a poor match to the capabilities of the headphone amp on the FM3T. I had never had issues with them before so maybe I got lucky with my other devices. I will now try to find an inexpensive but good quality headphone amp just out of curiosity to see how the HPH MT8’s sound when Ohms aren’t an issue.

Thank you, thank you. Thank you!

Ugly quick test setup photo for kicks.

 

[KingsXJJ]

It looks like the headphone output of my inbound NUX Amp Academy Stomp is 10 Ohms so that’s good right? I haven’t found the specs for my Iridium or OG Amp Academy yet.

 

[0XI0]

Perhaps my idea of tone and feel is different?

not at all, the deep east brains have got cascading preamp tube gain staging interaction DSP replication down in a very very specific way and have for a few years now, the distortion harmonics and cross modulation damping and dynamic transient response coming out of nux and hotone and the like are a lot more complex under player interaction than the og. i don't know how to do test signals and graphs to prove visually what i hear, i have seen those plugin doctor videos that can run test signals through various brands of "vintage modeled" EQ plugins to show which ones are actually doing work

 

[0XI0]

Funny you brought up the modeling in Logic. I remember when I first had a copy of it, around 2001, 2002 I think... I used the built in guitar modeling for some tones and really liked it lol. I have no idea what it's like now since I gave up on Logic years ago. I liked the Sansamp plugin back then too.

thrice used the logic built in amp sim for all of the alchemy index albums

 

[paisleywookiee]

Well I’ll be! @OrganicZed you Sir, win the internet. The second pair of HPH MT7’s sounded like crap even with the Ohm difference. Which is likely why I never use them and actually gave them away to a non-picky family member. But…

The Beyerdynamic DT 900 Pro X headphones were a huge improvement! HUGE. The FM3T sounded so much better. Tighter lows with nice cabinet thump and refined highs. It sounded great! Here’s the killer bonus in that the Stage sounded better as well but the difference wasn’t as dramatic.

I think you were absolutely right that the Yamaha HPH MT8’s were a poor match to the capabilities of the headphone amp on the FM3T. I had never had issues with them before so maybe I got lucky with my other devices. I will now try to find an inexpensive but good quality headphone amp just out of curiosity to see how the HPH MT8’s sound when Ohms aren’t an issue.

Thank you, thank you. Thank you!

Ugly quick test setup photo for licks.

View attachment 51208

Yeah again, ain't nothing wrong with Hotone, but playback systems play SO much of a part of the sound quality and enjoyment of a modeler. That's the only reason I was unsure of your earlier results.

 

[Mikael Dez]

Yeah again, ain't nothing wrong with Hotone, but playback systems play SO much of a part of the sound quality and enjoyment of a modeler. That's the only reason I was unsure of your earlier results.

See: DI’s article on it: https://blog.line6.com/2023/09/15/e...-sound-is-determined-by-your-playback-system/

 

[0XI0]

Yeah again, ain't nothing wrong with Hotone, but playback systems play SO much of a part of the sound quality and enjoyment of a modeler. That's the only reason I was unsure of your earlier results.

also there's sometimes undocumented differences in devices that can affect the playback system sound drastically, i started with a HX stomp and used a 1/4-1/8 adapter out of the headphone out into THR aux in for usual playback. when i got a helix floor i ran the same headphone adapter into the same THR aux in and it sounded god-tier, like a real tube preamp through real speakers, mind blown tone. turns out that tonal difference was entirely from the helix floor headphone amp being way better, a different impedance

 

[KingsXJJ]

Just did a quick sound check on the OG Amp Academy, Atomic Amplifier-Firebox MKII, Blackstar Dual Drive and all sounded significantly better. The Iridium sounded just a bit better.

I’ll need to adjust IR’s and “amp” settings/patches some but the underlying foundation of tone is considerably more solid.

I JUST UPGRADED ALL OF MY GEAR! Woo-Hoo!!! I’m not making any recommendations on specific headphones but I did my research and think I did well. The important lesson here though is getting the right headphones that match your headphone amp is key regardless of which sound signature/design/brand/price point will suit you and your preferences. The guys above me are absolutely right.

But another shoutout to @OrganicZed for being a helpful hero today. Thank You Man!

 

[ejecta]

Just understand the Beyerdynamics likely require a lot of correction. You can use the global EQ and dig up AutoEQ curves for the headphones.

I play through my Beyerdynamics headphones a lot when I have to go to silent playing and I don’t have to at all do “a lot of correction” with an EQ at all.

 

[KingsXJJ]

I play through my Beyerdynamics headphones a lot when I have to go to silent playing and I don’t have to at all do “a lot of correction” with an EQ at all.

I think it largely depends on the model. I think the DT 1990 Pro’s need significant correction but sound supposedly sublime once tuned. But I’m no expert. I just read up before buying.

 

[ejecta]

I think it largely depends on the model. I think the DT 1990 Pro’s need significant correction but sound supposedly sublime once tuned. But I’m no expert. I just read up before buying.

I use the DT770’s. I could go read up on how off they are or whatever….. but that wouldn’t really tell me anything meaningful so I just use my ears. The internet can be good for some info like technical aspects with ohms etc but in reality I find that just using your ears is the best when it comes to what sounds “good” and what doesn’t.

 

[laxu]

I use the DT770’s. I could go read up on how off they are or whatever….. but that wouldn’t really tell me anything meaningful so I just use my ears. The internet can be good for some info like technical aspects with ohms etc but in reality I find that just using your ears is the best when it comes to what sounds “good” and what doesn’t.

My DT990 Pros absolutely need correction or they just sound harsh.

 

[KingsXJJ]

I use the DT770’s. I could go read up on how off they are or whatever….. but that wouldn’t really tell me anything meaningful so I just use my ears. The internet can be good for some info like technical aspects with ohms etc but in reality I find that just using your ears is the best when it comes to what sounds “good” and what doesn’t.

I can dog that!

 

[KingsXJJ]

My DT990 Pros absolutely need correction or they just sound harsh.

That’s why I went for the 900’s.

 

[ejecta]

My DT990 Pros absolutely need correction or they just sound harsh.

Maybe your tone is harsh on the top end. Who knows. All this is 100% subjective so obviously YMMV

 

[AlbertA]

 

[StratsoundFan]

You'd need a headphone amplifier with low impedance output for those Yamaha headphones, which I don't believe the FM3 has. The impedance ratio should be at least 8 to 1. That's the golden rule from what I've read.

 

[laxu]

Maybe your tone is harsh on the top end. Who knows. All this is 100% subjective so obviously YMMV

No, those headphones have hugely overhyped highs.