Help me decide IR-X or attenuated tube amp?

[henrik1224]

Hello all, I am new to the board and hope to get the benefit of your experience here:

Tired of digital modellers for my use. I need a simple rig for:
A) Silent practice at home (either in headphones or very low volume)
B) Sitting in at a LOT of sessions and gigs - often needing transport by cab

I know - digital modellers are basically perfect for this. But I can't live with them.

I want a souped-up Marshall sound (Up to hot-rodded JCM 800)
I run a couple of pedals in front (drive, phaser, wah) and a couple of pedals in the loop (delay + eq)

For many sessions/gigs I would need to go simultaneously DI/FOH and to a backline amp

I am split between the following solutions:

1) Friedman IR-X (w/splitter box)
2)Marshall DSL 40 CR - cheapish combo - could switch out speaker to a creamback W Two-notes Torpedo or Torpedo X for attenuation and DI/split
3) A High quality amp head: E.G. Friedman JEL 20 or the Laboga P2P-wired Plexi copy w/ Two notes Torpedo or Torpedo X

I know that there is a huge price difference. If the solution makes me happy, that won't matter too much. The Friedman seems to be a slam-dunk for a lot of reasons - but how is the built quality? Can I get a good Marshall rumble out of it? Will it last for a reasonably long time? (I would expect the DSL to last perhaps 5-10 years of use - I would expect the JEL-20 or Laboga to outlast me with periodic service)
I am also aware that the suggested heads are about 10x as heavy as the IR-X - but that might be okay depending on how different it works or lasts


Any ideas or suggestions within the parameters are highly appreciated. Thanks for any help!

 

[Jarick]

I’d try the Friedman first to see if that works for you and if not you know to go amp and attenuator.

 

[aivoryuk]

Hello all, I am new to the board and hope to get the benefit of your experience here:

Tired of digital modellers for my use. I need a simple rig for:
A) Silent practice at home (either in headphones or very low volume)
B) Sitting in at a LOT of sessions and gigs - often needing transport by cab

I know - digital modellers are basically perfect for this. But I can't live with them.

I want a souped-up Marshall sound (Up to hot-rodded JCM 800)
I run a couple of pedals in front (drive, phaser, wah) and a couple of pedals in the loop (delay + eq)

For many sessions/gigs I would need to go simultaneously DI/FOH and to a backline amp

I am split between the following solutions:

1) Friedman IR-X (w/splitter box)
2)Marshall DSL 40 CR - cheapish combo - could switch out speaker to a creamback W Two-notes Torpedo or Torpedo X for attenuation and DI/split
3) A High quality amp head: E.G. Friedman JEL 20 or the Laboga P2P-wired Plexi copy w/ Two notes Torpedo or Torpedo X

I know that there is a huge price difference. If the solution makes me happy, that won't matter too much. The Friedman seems to be a slam-dunk for a lot of reasons - but how is the built quality? Can I get a good Marshall rumble out of it? Will it last for a reasonably long time? (I would expect the DSL to last perhaps 5-10 years of use - I would expect the JEL-20 or Laboga to outlast me with periodic service)
I am also aware that the suggested heads are about 10x as heavy as the IR-X - but that might be okay depending on how different it works or lasts


Any ideas or suggestions within the parameters are highly appreciated. Thanks for any help!

The IR-x is a great bit of gear - very well thought out and most importantly sounds great. The headphone output on it is ok a little bit noisy - it seems to be the case with these types of products - I also had the Strymon iridium and the headphone wasn't great on that either.

I did eventually end up selling the IR-X but that is because I went down the Synergy route into a fryette powerstation which with the self attenuation is fabulous - I use my Fractal FM3 for post effects

 

[Byrdman]

Any of the Marshall Studio Series Combos will meet all your requirements. I would recommend the SC20C if you are wanting the JCM800 tones. I have the head version and IMO, it's awesome!

 

[henrik1224]

Thanks for the replies so far.

I like the suggestion of trying the IR-X first. That is, of course methodically sound. But I'm tired of the buying, trying and selling quest...

Perhaps someone with knowledge of the build quality of the IR-X, and/or specific experience w how the IR-X 'feels' compared to an attenuated Marshall (-type) could chime in as well?
Trying to be more specific in what I miss:
I really miss the 'thump' of a hot Marshall with modellers (or any pedals )- I don't have the technical vocabulary to describe it - but records like 'Fair Warning', 'Youthanasia", "Dr Feelgood" have some similarities in that not overly distorted but really low-register crunch which I love for my dirty rhythm tone (and then I just boost to lead with a pedal or roll off to clean sound)

Can I get that with an IR-X or would I be happier with a (heavier, much more expensive) amp set-up?

Again - the amp set-up is at least 10 times heavier, at least 5 times more expensive. ( A DSL 40 combo, is, however, only fractionally more expensive locally)But is the IR-X close enough in feel and tone? Thanks again

 

[Byrdman]

Thanks for the replies so far.

I like the suggestion of trying the IR-X first. That is, of course methodically sound. But I'm tired of the buying, trying and selling quest...

Perhaps someone with knowledge of the build quality of the IR-X, and/or specific experience w how the IR-X 'feels' compared to an attenuated Marshall (-type) could chime in as well?
Trying to be more specific in what I miss:
I really miss the 'thump' of a hot Marshall with modellers (or any pedals )- I don't have the technical vocabulary to describe it - but records like 'Fair Warning', 'Youthanasia", "Dr Feelgood" have some similarities in that not overly distorted but really low-register crunch which I love for my dirty rhythm tone (and then I just boost to lead with a pedal or roll off to clean sound)

Can I get that with an IR-X or would I be happier with a (heavier, much more expensive) amp set-up?

Again - the amp set-up is at least 10 times heavier, at least 5 times more expensive. ( A DSL 40 combo, is, however, only fractionally more expensive locally)But is the IR-X close enough in feel and tone? Thanks again

Not sure where you are in the world, but if you are in USA, go buy a used one from GC. Try it out for 45 days and return it if it doesnt do what you want.

 

[spawnofthesith]

I've heard nothing but good reviews about the friedman IR stuff, but I will say getting a captor to use with my amps was one of the best purchases I've ever made. I already owned multiple tube amps that I love though.

I saved a a couple hundred by just getting a regular captor plus an inexpensive IR loader "pedal" to use with headphones or going into a mixer but the captor X seems pretty nice for an all in one unit

 

[henrik1224]

I've heard nothing but good reviews about the friedman IR stuff, but I will say getting a captor to use with my amps was one of the best purchases I've ever made. I already owned multiple tube amps that I love though.

I saved a a couple hundred by just getting a regular captor plus an inexpensive IR loader "pedal" to use with headphones or going into a mixer but the captor X seems pretty nice for an all in one unit

Great to hear - could you elaborate on how your amps feel when attenuated and going through the Captor? Last time I owned a Marshall stack was when we just ran them into 4x12"s.... (20+ years ago). Is it just as good? (Apart from the actual physicality of the sound waves)

As mentioned in OP, much of my time is either in session or on stage with a live speaker or amp in the room - the reality is just that a gunned 50W (probably even a 20w) is just too much in most cases - hence the need for attenuation. Thanks again

 

[spawnofthesith]

Great to hear - could you elaborate on how your amps feel when attenuated and going through the Captor? Last time I owned a Marshall stack was when we just ran them into 4x12"s.... (20+ years ago). Is it just as good? (Apart from the actual physicality of the sound waves)

As mentioned in OP, much of my time is either in session or on stage with a live speaker or amp in the room - the reality is just that a gunned 50W (probably even a 20w) is just too much in most cases - hence the need for attenuation. Thanks again

I actually only just recently started using the attenuator itself, and I wish I had started sooner. I do believe the Captor X has more powerful attenuation options than the regular Captor. the standard only has -20db. I don't use attenuation live or with my band, but when I still want the amp in the room experience when playing in my apartment the attenuator is awesome. All my amps definitely sound better at apartment volumes using that than without, and I don't notice any loss of feel

As far as playing silently with headphones, in that realm at the end of the day your tone is only going to be as good as the IR you're putting it through. Took some hunting for me and there's a surprising number of high quality IRs I don't like but after a while I was able to find a handful I really like. I'm not gonna say its totally the same experience or "just as good" but its damn close and real nice to have for both silent practice and for recording ideas

 

[henrik1224]

I actually only just recently started using the attenuator itself, and I wish I had started sooner. I do believe the Captor X has more powerful attenuation options than the regular Captor. the standard only has -20db. I don't use attenuation live or with my band, but when I still want the amp in the room experience when playing in my apartment the attenuator is awesome. All my amps definitely sound better at apartment volumes using that than without, and I don't notice any loss of feel

As far as playing silently with headphones, in that realm at the end of the day your tone is only going to be as good as the IR you're putting it through. Took some hunting for me and there's a surprising number of high quality IRs I don't like but after a while I was able to find a handful I really like. I'm not gonna say its totally the same experience or "just as good" but its damn close and real nice to have for both silent practice and for recording ideas

Thank you for your detailed follow-up. Much appreciated It does sound like a great solution. I will admit that I am (a youngish) dinosaur, and I do miss playing with dynamics, feedback etc. in a lower-volume setting. I'll probably not get to crank a stack much these days - on the other hand, I get to play in a lot of different settings - and the sound engineers are much friendlier when I can just hand them an XLR:-)

Sounds like the Captor + amp is s viable option.

Has anyone compared an IR-X to a attenuated Marshall?

 

[henrik1224]

Not sure where you are in the world, but if you are in USA, go buy a used one from GC. Try it out for 45 days and return it if it doesnt do what you want.

In Europe, will see if any of the dealers have a try-out period, thanks for the tip

 

[GuitarBilly74]

Not the IR-X,but I have the IR-D and several Marshalls I use with or without attenuators: Super Lead, 2203, DSL100, 3203 etc

I started to use the IR-D live a few weeks ago due to an emergency (it was my backup and my main rig went down) and I was really impressed with how it sounded. I've done another 3 shows with it since then and will probably start using it as my main live rig moving forward. The IR-D is very close to an amp and probably the most realistic DI sound I've had so far, miles ahead of the modeling I've tried before.

 

[JiveTurkey]

Not the IR-X,but I have the IR-D and several Marshalls I use with or without attenuators: Super Lead, 2203, DSL100, 3203 etc

I started to use the IR-D live a few weeks ago due to an emergency (it was my backup and my main rig went down) and I was really impressed with how it sounded. I've done another 3 shows with it since then and will probably start using it as my main live rig moving forward. The IR-D is very close to an amp and probably the most realistic DI sound I've had so far, miles ahead of the modeling I've tried before.

Are you boosting it with pedals or is there enough gain onboard to do what you need? I'd probably grab the IR-D over the IR-X just because it seems like it is going to be the lower gain of the 2. I think?

 

[GuitarBilly74]

Are you boosting it with pedals or is there enough gain onboard to do what you need? I'd probably grab the IR-D over the IR-X just because it seems like it is going to be the lower gain of the 2. I think?

I boost with a SD1 for leads only. Rhythm is straight in. The IR-D has enough gain, my gain is set at 1 o'clock. Plenty more to go and the on-board boost adds even more if you want to (I set the on-board boost for volume only, you can adjust that with the mini knobs on the side). However, I've been using a SD-1 all my life and it does other things to the tone, like adds midrange, cuts bass etc that I like it.
But you don't need it. The IR-D is not a low gain pedal by any means.

I basically use it with the same exact pedalboard I use with my Marshalls, just replacing the amp with the IR-D.

 

[GuitarBilly74]

Here, an 80s cover (Cinderella).from last Saturday show, all straight in except the solo:



End of my solo spot and our last song (original):

 

[JiveTurkey]

Nice. Plenty of gain on tap without sounding OTT. Good stuff!

 

[henrik1224]

Here, an 80s cover (Cinderella).from last Saturday show, all straight in except the solo:



End of my solo spot and our last song (original):

Awesome

Thanks for the detailed explanation. Yes, I run basically the same setup with a Boss pedal for boost:-)

Can I ask you - I noticed a 4x12 speaker stack on stage. How do you run from the IR-D? Ideally, I would go to both FOH and into some power amp simultaneously - to get the feel of playing with the amp/using feedback etc. Is that what you as well? Thanks

 

[GuitarBilly74]

Awesome

Thanks for the detailed explanation. Yes, I run basically the same setup with a Boss pedal for boost:-)

Can I ask you - I noticed a 4x12 speaker stack on stage. How do you run from the IR-D? Ideally, I would go to both FOH and into some power amp simultaneously - to get the feel of playing with the amp/using feedback etc. Is that what you as well? Thanks

I wasn't using the 4x12, it belonged to another band. It was all direct.

But to answer your question, you can split the signal from the effects loop. From the last pedal in the loop, use a Y splitter, one side goes back to the effects return and the other goes to your power amp. By splitting it there, there is no IR going to the power amp.

Then the IR-D out (with the IR) goes to the PA. It's very simple and easy to do.

 

[JiveTurkey]

I wasn't using the 4x12, it belonged to another band. It was all direct.

But to answer your question, you can split the signal from the effects loop. From the last pedal in the loop, use a Y splitter, one side goes back to the effects return and the other goes to your power amp. By splitting it there, there is no IR going to the power amp.

Then the IR-D out (with the IR) goes to the PA. It's very simple and easy to do.

The baked in cab emulation from the XLR out is post fx loop, right? Good implementation.

 

[henrik1224]

Not the IR-X,but I have the IR-D and several Marshalls I use with or without attenuators: Super Lead, 2203, DSL100, 3203 etc

I started to use the IR-D live a few weeks ago due to an emergency (it was my backup and my main rig went down) and I was really impressed with how it sounded. I've done another 3 shows with it since then and will probably start using it as my main live rig moving forward. The IR-D is very close to an amp and probably the most realistic DI sound I've had so far, miles ahead of the modeling I've tried before.

Could you comment on the IR-D compared to your amps? Where's the difference in sound or feel in a real-world scenario in your opinion and experience? I know it's subjective, but it is the kind of comparative experience that I am really hoping to hear about. Thank you, I appreciate the time and effort!