Helix Talk

[molul]

I think the three full size pieces will be gone in 2 years. The others being replaced one for one.

I would give it some more time, because the prices are this:

Helix Stadium XL: 2200
Helix Stadium: 1800
Helix Rack: 1400
Helix Floor: 1300
Helix LT: 900

The price difference is attractive enough to keep them selling for quite a while. Not everyone will be willing to pay double the price for the LT substitute, or 900 more for the Floor one. And Rack has no substitute yet.

It all depends on how fine people will be with having an unit that runs older software. I don't really know how that will impact sales.

 

[Eagle]

I would give it some more time, because the prices are this:

Helix Stadium XL: 2200
Helix Stadium: 1800
Helix Rack: 1400
Helix Floor: 1300
Helix LT: 900

The price difference is attractive enough to keep them selling for quite a while. Not everyone will be willing to pay double the price for the LT substitute, or 900 more for the Floor one. And Rack has no substitute yet.

It all depends on how fine people will be with having a unit that runs older software. I don't really know how that will impact sales.

Sales will go off a cliff.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Without any doubt, OG HX-series sales will fade away at one point in time.
But kudos to Line 6 if they in fact manage to at least somewhat support them for the foreseeable future. And I'm not even thinking about larger updates but things such as to keep HX Edit and HX Native more or less up to date, which (unfortunately) might otherwise become an issue for Mac users.

 

[Lysander]

Helix LT: 900

A LT for $900 is still ridiculous value. The OG Helix platform will continue to sound great even after Stadium is released.

 

[Mooselake]

I would give it some more time, because the prices are this:

Helix Stadium XL: 2200
Helix Stadium: 1800
Helix Rack: 1400
Helix Floor: 1300
Helix LT: 900

The price difference is attractive enough to keep them selling for quite a while. Not everyone will be willing to pay double the price for the LT substitute, or 900 more for the Floor one. And Rack has no substitute yet.

It all depends on how fine people will be with having an unit that runs older software. I don't really know how that will impact sales.

Yep, it's kind of like rather than replacing the Helix Line, they added two higher tiers on top of the existing lineup. Mostly I think it will come down to Agoura versus the legacy Helix modelling engine. If Agoura is an indisputable leveling up in tone satisfaction, then it's more likely the existing boxes will fade rapidly. If it's more of an incremental improvement, maybe there's room for a longer window of coexistence. Maybe the price spread will foster a longer coexistence even if the new modeling is worth the price of admission on it's own merits. I don't know how to gauge the effect of the new functionality. I just know if they offered a new SKU for several hundred bucks more based on the existing Helix modeling platform but with the new features added, I would probably stick with my LT.

 

[Lysander]

Yep, it's kind of like rather than replacing the Helix Line, they added two higher tiers on top of the existing lineup. Mostly I think it will come down to Agoura versus the legacy Helix modelling engine. If Agoura is an indisputable leveling up in tone satisfaction, then it's more likely the existing boxes will fade rapidly.

ngl and say i'm not excited about this new modelling engine, but if all i got from Stadium was a smaller footprint and much increased DSP, i would've bought it anyway.

Line 6 made it clear that they're not phasing out the OG Helices anytime soon - in fact, new effects will likely be back ported to non-Stadium devices.

 

[molul]

ngl and say i'm not excited about this new modelling engine, but if all i got from Stadium was a smaller footprint and much increased DSP, i would've bought it anyway.

Me too, just for better portability. I currently move my 5'6kg LT in a 8.3kg flight case (Thomann's Thon case).

I was stupid enough not to see there was a lighter LT Thon case (5'6kg), so I'm currently carrying 14kg.

The Stadium will be 3.5kg, and I guess the light Thon case will be around that weight too, so it will go down to ~7kg. Quite attractive for me already.

The rest of features perfectly justify the money I'll spend on it:

-More DSP and blocks space will allow me to simplify some songs presets I currently have split in 2 or 3.

-The Showcase feature could help me a lot, as I was planning on starting to perform solo for a while (I'm moving to another city and it might take some time to find musicians to continue my project).

-Having a microphone input would also be helpful if Line6 makes a harmony block that works fine for vocals (the current one makes your voice sound like either a smurf or an ork). I really really hope they add this, so I can get rid of yet another device (my Boss VE500).

 

[ragingplatypi]

A LT for $900 is still ridiculous value. The OG Helix platform will continue to sound great even after Stadium is released.

Yeah. And $900 today is $725 in 2017 dollars. So I’m feeling pretty good about my recent LT purchase.

 

[StarF666]

I thing OG Helix SKU are still pretty strong options at these prices. Mainly because these are not the 2015 versions but 3.80 or maybe 4.0 soon. You get a pretty complete feature set, rich amp and effects library and leading UX at a very competitive price. 2 weeks ago OG Helix was still an absolute recommendation for people in the market for a top tier modeler. Stadium ist kind of next gen but as long as others haven't caught up with something new, OG still meets all the criteria for top tier. Most early adopters will be long time Helix users and people who just always buy the biggest V8. To me stadium is the like a really big firmware update, just this time it's also hardware. After being an OG Floor user since 2015, it's really just a very nice and appreciated update.

 

[Sascha Franck]

The OG Helix platform will continue to sound great even after Stadium is released.

Absolutely. And following the mantra on this very discussion board, not only do I have zero intentions to ever sell my Stomp (even if I may one day abuse whatever newer HX-familiy creations), I'm pretty sure I'll keep using it for one or the other thing for a looong time to come, even if there's zero updates anymore.

 

[Digital Igloo]

I think the three full size pieces will be gone in 2 years. The others being replaced one for one.

I mean you could, y'know, ask someone who knows.

There is no plan to discontinue Helix Floor, Rack, or LT. We're still actively manufacturing them. Helix Stadium is simply a new line that appears above them: POD > Helix/HX > Helix Stadium

Now if sales of Helix Floor, Rack, and LT completely dry up, we'll revisit, but there's a big price difference between the two lines (and the economy is a dumpster fire), so we suspect they'll continue to be successful for a while.

Sales will go off a cliff.

Oh no! You should immediately call our dealers, because many just upped their Helix/HX POs (due to the lower prices and halo effect of Stadium). Clearly you know more about this than they do.

 

[Sascha Franck]

I mean you could, y'know, ask someone who knows.

Emphasis on "could".

 

[AlbertA]

 

[Mikael Dez]

Line 6 made it clear that they're not phasing out the OG Helices anytime soon - in fact, new effects will likely be back ported to non-Stadium devices.

The opposite of the shitty Headrush forced obsolescence model!

 

[HotRats]

I think the three full size pieces will be gone in 2 years. The others being replaced one for one.

2 years? 2 years is basically tomorrow.
Not a chance unless something shakes the market in unpredictable ways.

They'll last for at least 5 more years, that's my prediction.

 

[Eagle]

2 years? 2 years is basically tomorrow.
Not a chance unless something shakes the market in unpredictable ways.

They'll last for at least 5 more years, that's my prediction.

I stick with two.

 

[laxu]

Yep, it's kind of like rather than replacing the Helix Line, they added two higher tiers on top of the existing lineup. Mostly I think it will come down to Agoura versus the legacy Helix modelling engine. If Agoura is an indisputable leveling up in tone satisfaction, then it's more likely the existing boxes will fade rapidly. If it's more of an incremental improvement, maybe there's room for a longer window of coexistence. Maybe the price spread will foster a longer coexistence even if the new modeling is worth the price of admission on it's own merits. I don't know how to gauge the effect of the new functionality. I just know if they offered a new SKU for several hundred bucks more based on the existing Helix modeling platform but with the new features added, I would probably stick with my LT.

I think the Helix Rack/Floor price point is about where people stop being price conscious. Do you pay $1400 for a Helix Rack, do you pay an extra $200 for a QC, or spend the extra $400 for the Helix Stadium. I think many will opt for the Stadium because at that point they are already spending a lot of money and might as well spend more to get "the latest and best".

So keeping those older units on the market will also work as an upsell strategy.

Atm on Thomann in Europe, the pricing for the more notable multifx brands they sell looks like this. I added Fractal from G66 for reference.

Product	Price € incl Finnish VAT 25.5%
Fractal Axe-Fx 3 Mk2 Turbo	3149
Fractal Axe-Fx 3 Mk2	2949
Fractal FM9 Mk2 Turbo	2420
Line6 HX Stadium XL	2199?
Line6 HX Stadium	1799? Please?
Kemper Powerhead & Powerrack MK2	1799
Neural DSP Quad Cortex	1599
Fender Tone Master Pro	1599
Kemper Stage MK2	1555
Fractal FM3 Mk2 Turbo	1475
Kemper Toaster & Rack MK2	1399
Line6 Helix Rack	1349
Line6 Helix Floor	1290
Boss GT-1000	979
Line6 Helix LT	919
Kemper Player	699
Line6 HX Stomp XL	698
Line6 HX Stomp	639
Hotone Ampero 2 Stage	635
Boss GT-1000 Core	609
Line6 POD GO Wireless	569
Boss GX-100	555
Hotone Ampero 2	555
Line6 HX Effects	549
Neural DSP Nano Cortex	511
Line6 POD GO	485
Boss GX-10	409
Hotone Ampero 2 Stomp	399

Line6 has pretty strong offerings at multiple price points below their competition. While I'd buy Hotone over POD Go any day, for the rest it might make people choose Line6 over spending more for the newer units if they have a more firm budget.

 

[EOengineer]

Jesus I didn’t even think about it until we started getting into pricing here but I don’t envy anyone trying to commit to pricing in this climate, especially on the successor of a product that lived for a decade plus.

 

[Digital Igloo]

Jesus I didn’t even think about it until we started getting into pricing here but I don’t envy anyone trying to commit to pricing in this climate, especially on the successor of a product that lived for a decade plus.

Yeah, I’ll admit it sucks big time.

 

[Lysander]

Yeah, I’ll admit it sucks big time.

@Digital Igloo , pricing aside, do you have any information of Helix Stadiums availability in Europe? Can we expect the same fall/winter timeline as the US?

Asking because though some US retailers are allowing (pre?)pre-orders, none of the usual suspects in the EU do just yet.