Helix JCM800 2203 Request Thread (FW 3.70 new Brit 2203)!

Big ups for the Neold stuff. I love their warble and several other color plugins they’ve put out. I use them all the time.

Anyway, yeah…I think the L6 originals are cool…but any effort thrown into engineering those while not rectifying major decision errors in previous efforts leaves me with some concerns over their prioritization practices.

As a software engineer, it smells a bit like feature addiction - a dogmatic belief that new features are the only thing that drive platform adoption. It’s an increasingly present practice and I’ve seen it kill platforms and companies entirely. I hope everything is ok at L6.
I love the Neold approach because the designs they make are totally impractical and not cost effective for producing in any kind of production numbers. They’re still very real world circuits, made with desirable and rare components and built to perform specific tasks. But they’re also built by people with a long background and proven track record in designing hardware circuits.

I can totally imagine for a developer, it’s way more fun to create something new without the limitations of modelling a physical piece of gear than it is to go back and slave over something you’ve spent hours and hours on already. Prioritising the stuff that is more fun doesn’t really help to make a better product, I’d sooner see the broken stuff fixed and things that can be improved seem to.

It’s a known fact that Line 6 are constantly evolving and improving how they model gear, so it makes total sense to apply these new techniques and approaches to older models. Adding new models alongside stuff that doesn’t represent what they’re capable of in 2023 leaves the products feeling lopsided (with questionable models of classic gear, and modern sims of products that are born out of thin air).
 
Coming from Helix to Fractal I can say this for sure they have done really great for Marshall and Mesa Models
I have not explored all the amps but so far I can say this with assurance the ones i have tested out, they all sound fantastic
I cant say if they are accurate or not not as I've never played through any tube amp, but having used Marshals and Mesa in the Helix I do prefer the Fractal
:idk
The fractal models do sound consistently solid, but I really hate how the Mark series amps are spread over different models for each mode of the amp. You lose the feel of the real thing when all your settings reset when you swap modes. I think Line 6 (and Fractal) would both need more DSP to have have all the push pulls and channels within the same model, something I hope the next generation of modellers takes care of.

Kind of wish Metallurgy went a bit further with this - they combined some channels from various models into the same amp but (for instance) the Mark IV still only has the fixed modes. Would be cool if Line 6 fully took advantage of what’s available when not constrained by physical HW.

No such things to worry about with a 2203/2204/1959/1987 - one channel of a simple circuit. I’d love a no compromise take on that circuit
 
JNC states if its anything or everything Marshall your looking for then look no further than Fractal

 
it smells a bit like feature addiction - a dogmatic belief that new features are the only thing that drive platform adoption.
If that is really the case, Line 6's need to figure out how to market fixes, updates, and revisions.
Take Fractal's 'Cygnus' or IK's "Remastered Classic Gear" and many more examples of Remodeled, Redesigned, Revised, Revamped, Reimagined, etc. words that are there to re-spark your interest in the same product, often with very little change.
I can only speak for myself but Original models are not something I care about in the slightest, but I would be very excited for revised Marshalls.
 
Yes everyone knows that In-N-Out are far superior, but this is Wendy's and we want Wendy's hamburgers to be slightly better than crap. ;)

Why's you have to go and reference In-n-out... I haven't had one since December 2019.

Damn now I'm gonna be thinking about an Animal Style Double Double with a Vanilla shake all day

1486751722-crying.gif
 
The fractal models do sound consistently solid, but I really hate how the Mark series amps are spread over different models for each mode of the amp. You lose the feel of the real thing when all your settings reset when you swap modes. I think Line 6 (and Fractal) would both need more DSP to have have all the push pulls and channels within the same model, something I hope the next generation of modellers takes care of.

Kind of wish Metallurgy went a bit further with this - they combined some channels from various models into the same amp but (for instance) the Mark IV still only has the fixed modes. Would be cool if Line 6 fully took advantage of what’s available when not constrained by physical HW.

No such things to worry about with a 2203/2204/1959/1987 - one channel of a simple circuit. I’d love a no compromise take on that circuit
IMO the Mark IV is a perfect example of L6 making a poor choice given the known limits of their VERY comprehensive modeling process. In this case, they selected one the most complex and feature rich amps on the planet and probably created a really accurate model…in a configuration not representative of the tones most people look for when they reach for a Mark series amp.

If you know you have a long process not conducive to getting every switch and pull option accounted for due to the extreme effort it would take to execute that properly with their measurement process, you either choose a simpler version of that circuit with less options (Mark IIC+ or Mark III) or you double down on your user research to find out how that amp most often gets used before measuring ANYTHING.

Line 6 obviously did neither, and that’s what concerns me. Who is making these decisions and why is there no functioning set of checks and balances to make sure the right amps are selected, and that those selected amps are configured in the form where they would do what they do.

If that is really the case, Line 6's need to figure out how to market fixes, updates, and revisions.
Take Fractal's 'Cygnus' or IK's "Remastered Classic Gear" and many more examples of Remodeled, Redesigned, Revised, Revamped, Reimagined, etc. words that are there to re-spark your interest in the same product, often with very little change.
I can only speak for myself but Original models are not something I care about in the slightest, but I would be very excited for revised Marshalls.
Obviously take my assumptions there with a grain of salt. I don’t purport to know their development and prioritization practices. I’m just at a loss to come up with more reasonable explanations as to how they can get so many things so right in Helix, and then miss some other ESSENTIAL low hanging fruit so badly.

In 2023, a manufacturer absolutely CANNOT have a modeling product out there with poor Plexis, 800s, Mesa Mark, and Mesa Rectifiers and expect people to stick around and invest in the platform when others are doing it so well, and in some cases for far less money.

Grabbing the Tonex earlier this year dramatically dropped my sense of peace and satisfaction with Helix in large part due to coming across great examples of those circuits, realizing what was possible with current tech, and realizing how far off Helix is from that.
 
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Coming from Helix to Fractal I can say this for sure they have done really great for Marshall and Mesa Models
I have not explored all the amps but so far I can say this with assurance the ones i have tested out, they all sound fantastic
I cant say if they are accurate or not not as I've never played through any tube amp, but having used Marshals and Mesa in the Helix I do prefer the Fractal
:idk
I want to love fractal. I really do. The tones speak to me. Unfortunately I need a comprehensive system that lets me move from computer to dedicated hardware seamlessly, and I think they’ve been pretty clear that a plugin ain’t gonna happen. Otherwise I’d be jamming on my FM9 instead of in here yelling at clouds with @James Freeman.

I’m sure we’ve both made @Digital Igloo ignore list at this point.
 
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I think they were opposed to developing an expensive high end modeler (Helix) and if i recall correctly it almost didnt make it to market if not for DI and his team so yeah I figure everything is a tough sell @ YGG
 
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