Helix JCM800 2203 Request Thread (FW 3.70 new Brit 2203)!

[James Freeman]

This is interesting. Forgive my ignorance… I always thought the effect of the bright cap was small at high master settings,

Yes, high master volume setting will turn good preamp tone into mush.
In my opinion, master volume amps where the tone is mostly shaped by the preamp are performing their best with master below 3, even as low as 1.

brit trem brt
Yesterday I tried boosting the signal and running the gain lower, and the tone seems to have more kerrang.

That's the whole point of having a master volume amp and keeping the bright cap, it is versatile, there are many tones in it.
The reverse trick is also useful for bright single-coil guitars, turn the gain to 10 and lower the input level with a clean eq block.

As you can understand, the user can easily 'remove' the bright cap by turning the Gain to 10 and lowering input, but we cannot bring back the bright cap if it is not modeled in the first place.

Hopefully, Line 6 will have another go at their Plexi too.

do you know if the Bogner Shiva also has a bright cap?

No, the real amp does not have a bright cap, it also doesn't have the second peaking cap and no cold clipper stage either.
Like many other amps it's based on the JCM800 but is completely different.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

No, the real amp does not have a bright cap, it also doesn't have the second peaking cap and no cold clipper stage either.
Like many other amps it's based on the JCM800 but is completely different.

The real amp does have a bright switch for each channel, but obviously Line 6 modelled it without. REALLY dull sounding amp to me without the bright switch

http://www.musette-japan.com/bogner_contents/pdf/manual/shiva.pdf

EDIT: just seen the older versions didn’t have this

 

[James Freeman]

Oh, I was looking at a known online schematic, probably traced form a modded Shiva.
Even the goddam schematic is missing the bright cap.

EDIT: Early Shiva's didn't have bright caps.

But I did also confirm that the Helix model does not have the bright cap with pink noise.
And yes, it's totally crap with humbuckers, IMO.

 

[SillyOctpuss]

Oh, I was looking at a known online schematic, probably traced form a modded Shiva.
Even the goddam schematic is missing the bright cap.

But I did also confirm that the Helix model does not have the bright cap with pink noise.
And yes, it's totally crap with humbuckers, IMO.

I quite like it with the York audio bogna pack but its the only cab/ir that seems to work with it. I also don't really like the bogna pack with anything else, it seems too bassy with any other amp I try it with.
The only YA pack I've bought that never gets any use.

 

[James Freeman]

Early Bogner Shiva, no bright caps or switches.
I assume that's what we have in the Helix so the model is accurate.

Bogner must have added the bright caps on switches by popular request.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

Early Bogner Shiva, no bright caps or switches.
I assume that's what we have in the Helix so the model is accurate.

View attachment 8521

View attachment 8522

THE definitive version of the circuit, according to some strat players in Calabasa, CA....

Not my bag, which is why I was surprised when I didn't mind Audio Assault and Fractal's take on the Shiva (which happen to have the bright cap). Makes it go from dull and flubby to somewhat useable.

 

[James Freeman]

strat players in Calabasa, CA....

If there's someone to blame for the missing bright caps on most Helix models....

 

[vino_buono]

Hopefully, Line 6 will have another go at their Plexi too.

Yes, it would be great to have the bright cap in the 100 watter too. I like the 50 watter, but it sounds a smidge more compressed.

 

[Perrymusica]

If there's someone to blame for the missing bright caps on most Helix models....

Hi James, how can it be that with how meticulous they are in line6 they don't realize that marshall emulations don't sound like the real thing? The difference in "tone" at high frequencies is quite noticeable. It is not necessary to have a special measurement device to perceive it, but rather a bit of hearing (sorry for my English. I use the translator) Hug

 

[James Freeman]

Hi James, how can it be that with how meticulous they are in line6 they don't realize that marshall emulations don't sound like the real thing? The difference in "tone" at high frequencies is quite noticeable. It is not necessary to have a special measurement device to perceive it, but rather a bit of hearing (sorry for my English. I use the translator) Hug

Line 6 modeled their specific JCM800 that they own in their collection, and that specific JCM800 had several modification done to it, the Brit 2204 model in the Helix is probably accurate and sounds exactly like their real amp they own.
Yes, it is very clear to anyone who played the real amp or a great emulation of it like the JMP2203 plugin from Softube that their JCM800 does not sound of behave like the stock (unmodified) amp.

WHY we still don't have a great JCM800 model in the Helix after 8+ years is a really good question, some answers are borderline conspiracy theories.
Here's one: Marshalls are not popular in the Facebook worship... sorry "Helix" group, they keep screeching 'Placater' every time anyone dares to mention a Marshall.
I'm joking of course, but your guess is as good as mine.

 

[Orvillain]

keep screeching 'Placater' every time anyone dares to mention a Marshall.

Screech "c*nt" in return. It'll feel good to say anyway.

 

[JiveTurkey]

Line 6 modeled their specific JCM800 that they own in their collection, and that specific JCM800 had several modification done to it, the Brit 2204 model in the Helix is probably accurate and sounds exactly like their real amp they own.
Yes, it is very clear to anyone who played the real amp or a great emulation of it like the JMP2203 plugin from Softube that their JCM800 does not sound of behave like the stock (unmodified) amp.

WHY we still don't have a great JCM800 model in the Helix after 8+ years is a really good question, some answers are borderline conspiracy theories.
Here's one: Marshalls are not popular in the Facebook worship... sorry "Helix" group, they keep screeching 'Placater' every time anyone dares to mention a Marshall.
I'm joking of course, but your guess is as good as mine.

 

[Whizzinby]

I don’t own a Helix, but still want this to happen for James…

 

[EOengineer]

I don’t own a Helix, but still want this to happen for James…

We all know he’s gonna end up dead, pushed off the floating door though.

 

[DieSchmalle]

I hope (but doubt) that Line6 adds bright switches to the SLO crunch, Shiva and Archon, too.

 

[EOengineer]

I hope (but doubt) that Line6 adds bright switches to the SLO crunch, Shiva and Archon, too.

I agree. Really, any model of a circuit that has a bright cap either from the factory or has it regularly bypassed/altered as a popular mod should at least put it on a switch.

Manufacturers included those switches for a reason, and you will find all kinds of divisiveness around popular circuits that don’t provide that option - this thread being a perfect example of that.

 

[EOengineer]

I also wouldn’t mind seeing some bright cap options on the 4 hole normal channels as that can sound really cool too, but would IMO be a lot to ask.

 

[ACSlater]

Silver Jubilee is my favourite amp ( in reality and that I want added to the Helix) and next to that a really nice 800. Keep this thread alive untill they give in!

 

[BahamaDada]

We all know he’s gonna end up dead, pushed off the floating door though.

And you know who pushed him? The (door)knob. You know, bc knobs. And sliders. I'll find the door myself, tyvm.

 

[James Freeman]

Keep this thread alive until they give in

It's not about making the company of my modeler of choice give in, this thread serves way more than just one purpose.

One other purposes is to remind Line 6 and other companies who are definitely reading this it's not 2002 anymore, you can't label a model with a recognizable name and call it a day if it doesn't actually sound like one, that trick doesn't pass anymore.

Another related purpose is to remind Line 6 that there is 10 years difference between the launch models and the newest models in the Helix and some of the launch models just don't stand the test of time, especially now in 2023 with cheap/free capturing tech it's more obvious than ever.
If there is no new flagship in sight and Helix is here to stay for many more years, this 10 year gap between the old vs new models needs to tighten up.

You know what the customers want it's all over the forums, accurate models of historic/popular stock amps with all the channels and switches, easy.
I don't know about Facebook customers though, they wear scarves, fedoras and deep-v neck shirts, they play firebirds, jazzmasters and fuzzes, and they don't care about Marshalls or Boogies, very peculiar bunch, don't listen to them.