Helix JCM800 2203 Request Thread (FW 3.70 new Brit 2203)!

[DieSchmalle]

I'm a bit puzzled by this tread. The premise that a stock 2203 would be nice seems valid to me.

But the sounds that you guys seem to want from it are all in the Placater from my point of view. Engage Fat and C45, crank presence - this opens up the amp and lowers negative feedback to provide that raging untamed feel.

 

[James Freeman]

the sounds that you guys seem to want from it are all in the Placater

No.

 

[Elf]

Player number "n" has entered the game?

 

[Badonkey Kong]

Just to keep us well-calibrated to how a 2204 should sound (no, that's not me playing, but I wish it was!)

Man. What harmonizer is that guy using?

 

[James Freeman]

Player number "n" has entered the game?

All I see is a former NDSP guy promoting a NDSP clone plugin... that doesn't have a stock JCM800 mode. ->

 

[MirrorProfiles]

- no "stock" mode
- no pro tools AAX support
- no information on input levels
- new company, no track record
- product based on an amplifier that already has an excellent (officially licenced) sim from a reputable company

=a tough sell for me, Clive

Spoiler: If I'm going to go one step further:

Key Features:
1. Authentic Amp Modeling: Experience the unmistakable fury and crushing distortion of one of the most iconic signature amps of all time. This amp sim faithfully captures the essence of this legendary amplifier, ensuring that every note you play exudes sheer power and aggression.

This is literally their first key feature, and yet they are unable to tell me a correct input level to get an accurate response. There's still time for them to change their approach, but it seems nuts to throw money at a company that isn't getting these things right when there are so many other great options out there. Pre processed IR's sound like exactly what I'm not looking for. They would only work on a prewritten and pre-recorded song that I want to have absolutely no input on.

 

[James Freeman]

I'm still dumbfounded that Line 6 doesn't have a proper JCM800 emulation and a lot of Helix users are completely okay with that, this reminds me that the average Joe listens with his eyes; says "Brit 2204", "Brit Plexi", "Vitriol Crunch" on the tin, "must be exactly how the real amp sounds like", but people who own the real amps try a Helix and go WTF is this?

Marshalls are important to emulate as accurately as your current technology allows in every modeler generation, it has been 10+ year since Line 6 started working on the Helix and 8 years since launch, we are stuck with very mediocre Marshall launch models from a decade ago that desperately need a refresh with current understanding of these amps.

 

[mikah912]

I'm still dumbfounded that Line 6 doesn't have a proper JCM800 emulation and a lot of Helix users are completely okay with that, this reminds me that the average Joe listens with his eyes; says "Brit 2204", "Brit Plexi", "Vitriol Crunch" on the tin, "must be exactly how the real amp sounds like", but people who own the real amps try a Helix and go WTF is this?

Marshalls are important to emulate as accurately as your current technology allows in every modeler generation, it has been 10+ year since Line 6 started working on the Helix and 8 years since launch, we are stuck with very mediocre Marshall launch models from a decade ago that desperately need a refresh with current understanding of these amps.

I don't think it's people being "ok" with anything, per se. Helix is capable of getting a wide range of specific vintage and modern Marshall tones. You act as if they threw their hands up and quit on it, when they've added a Friedman, 50 watt Plexi, 2204 Mod, and another "modded Marshall" - the Cartographer - in that 8 year interim. Any "improvements" will come in the form of even more new models.

They don't have a business model where they continually revisit existing models for substantive changes. They likely never will. Only Fractal does that.

 

[James Freeman]

You act as if they threw their hands up and quit on it,

I don't understand what you mean here, but to me it seems like they are not willing to acknowledge the issue.
I may have been the most vocal about it on two forums but many other people have been letting Line 6 know about their JCM800 over the years just less passionately than me and way before I owned a Helix.

I also find it odd that Line 6 people become absent when users report bugs or dissatisfaction with particular amp models, I at least hope they read these threads as research to help them find the true source of the issue and how to fix it in the most productive way.

 

[partytrain]

I'm still dumbfounded that Line 6 doesn't have a proper JCM800 emulation and a lot of Helix users are completely okay with that, this reminds me that the average Joe listens with his eyes; says "Brit 2204", "Brit Plexi", "Vitriol Crunch" on the tin, "must be exactly how the real amp sounds like", but people who own the real amps try a Helix and go WTF is this?

Marshalls are important to emulate as accurately as your current technology allows in every modeler generation, it has been 10+ year since Line 6 started working on the Helix and 8 years since launch, we are stuck with very mediocre Marshall launch models from a decade ago that desperately need a refresh with current understanding of these amps.

I know the point of this thread and all, but are you really just going to repeat yourself over and over and over and over and over and over and over…….????

 

[James Freeman]

I know the point of this thread and all, but are you really just going to repeat yourself over and over and over and over and over and over and over…….????

If you had to ask, you don't really know the purpose of this thread.

 

[mikah912]

I don't understand what you mean here, but to me it seems like they are not willing to acknowledge the issue.
I may have been the most vocal about it on two forums but many other people have been letting Line 6 know about their JCM800 over the years just less passionately than me and way before I owned a Helix.

I also find it odd that Line 6 people become absent when users report bugs or dissatisfaction with particular amp models, I at least hope they read these threads as research to help them find the true source of the issue and how to fix it in the most productive way.

Again, this is not a bug or a technical issue. You don't like the source amp, but it hasn't been mistakenly modeled. That's it. They read people's dissatisfaction with amps ALL THE TIME (Exhibit A: Calling the Friedman the Placater after getting roasted for not having it for months/years).

But revisiting amps is something they rarely do. That's always been the case. DI is responsive on a ton of queries and issues here and elsewhere, but I just don't see him individually justifying their choices for what gets modeled and how.

 

[EOengineer]

Again, this is not a bug or a technical issue. You don't like the source amp, but it hasn't been mistakenly modeled. That's it. They read people's dissatisfaction with amps ALL THE TIME (Exhibit A: Calling the Friedman the Placater after getting roasted for not having it for months/years).

But revisiting amps is something they rarely do. That's always been the case. DI is responsive on a ton of queries and issues here and elsewhere, but I just don't see him individually justifying their choices for what gets modeled and how.

This thread is a vehicle for some of us to try to raise L6’s awareness that there are a couple important tones not represented in Helix. The thread is full of data, comparisons, historical information.

If it’s not your thing feel free to ignore the thread. The rest of us who feel passionately are going to continue trying. Even if L6 isn’t responding, I do think they are reading.

 

[mikah912]

This thread is a vehicle for some of us to try to raise L6’s awareness that there are a couple important tones not represented in Helix. The thread is full of data, comparisons, historical information.

If it’s not your thing feel free to ignore the thread. The rest of us who feel passionately are going to continue trying. Even if L6 isn’t responding, I do think they are reading.

I'm not trying to silence the request at all. I myself would love more modded Marshalls in Helix, and I've advocated repeatedly for this.

Simply saying that it's probably counterproductive to call it a bug or yell that it's crazy that they're not responding. They know, man. They are not unaware of the bright cap hullabaloo, I promise.

 

[James Freeman]

Any "improvements" will come in the form of even more new models.
They don't have a business model where they continually revisit existing models for substantive changes. They likely never will.

revisiting amps is something they rarely do. That's always been the case.

I know that Mikah, I've been a Helix owner for 3+ years and am active on forums.

Helix is capable of getting a wide range of specific vintage and modern Marshall tones. You act as if they threw their hands up and quit on it, when they've added a Friedman, 50 watt Plexi, 2204 Mod, and another "modded Marshall" - the Cartographer - in that 8 year interim.

The mentioned amps above do not sound like and are not a substitute to a great stock JCM800 2204 or a stock 70s Plexi.

Do you think I am completely out of my mind posting and bumping these threads on every forum?
I have a clear purpose doing this, I want EVERYONE to have great sounding Marshalls in the Helix and I want to clean some of Line 6's reputation regarding the quality of models because the state of the current Marshalls in the Helix is definitely not helping them with that.

 

[mikah912]

Ok guys. Best of luck with all that. Gonna see myself out.

 

[James Freeman]

Simply saying that it's probably counterproductive to call it a bug or yell that it's crazy that they're not responding.

That was regarding the PV Vitriol Crunch.

Ok guys. Best of luck with all that. Gonna see myself out.

You're always welcome back to help us drill.
I promise when we finally get great Marshalls I will remind you how little of faith you were.

 

[pipelineaudio]

If it’s not your thing feel free to ignore the thread. The rest of us who feel passionately are going to continue trying. Even if L6 isn’t responding, I do think they are reading.

THIS!!!!

I'm watching James' frustration and coming back to PTSD causing idiocy from more than twenty years ago for me, and I can finally barely talk about it without turning purple.

Before Sony bought Sonic Foundry, their Vegas project looked destined to seriously take over or at least grab a giant chunk of the DAW world (this was before it was focused and marketed towards video instead of audio...it was poised to do both), a few of us from different audio engineering backgrounds were in their beta forums. As I often did and still do, I would mock up marketing materials showcasing new features of a product and shared it with the forum and developers. Chief in the feature requests from me were the audio BASICS

One glaring basic that I felt should be there: A polarity switch on each channel

Yes the basic polarity switch was missing, a critical part of any mixing console. Yes it was also missing from most of the other DAWs at the time, but not our problem.

For some reason, there was a music writer/producer, NOT and engineer, who really held some serious sway over the forum and to some extent the admins for some reason, and he was 1000000000% against having polarity switches in the DAW. He pasted a picture of a polarity switching cable that we could use on the way in instead. Of course I said that there were many reasons AFTER the capture to need a polarity change, to which he had me banned for a week. It escalated from there, got pretty nasty, and you can imagine if something as BASIC as a polarity switch was worthy of banning, so many other features (sidechains for one) of course would get you banned

And now look, Vegas is owned by Magix. Nearly all of their audio users went on to REAPER

All these years later I get an email from one of the former insiders of the company once Sony bought it, linking to an article of the guy who tortured me getting called out for making a career of pretending to be a native american. I smiled, but I really felt in that moment, that the best revenge was a DAW well lived, and we have that now.

But all this babbling....look, some features are EXTREMELY important to some people and/or their workflows. If you don't need it, that's ok, nobody is holding a gun to your head. If something wants to go around calling itself a marshall 800, it should probably be one

Just because a Fauxcahontus doesn't need a polarity switch doesn't mean nobody should have one. I applaud James for how much work he has put into this

 

[ispunk]

But revisiting amps is something they rarely do. That's always been the case.

L6 did revisit the Rat pedal in Helix because users pointed out how bad it was. I know it's a lot easier to model a pedal a second time compared an amp but they are not adverse to fixing something if it is not correct.

 

[mikah912]

L6 did revisit the Rat pedal in Helix because users pointed out how bad it was. I know it's a lot easier to model a pedal a second time compared an amp but they are not adverse to fixing something if it is not correct.

But that was a case of something incorrectly modeled. The JCM800 appears not to be given the source material.