Helix 2204 Mod

[the-trooper]

I understand their stance in some regards

I understand it completely, I just don't agree with it
I think the whole "we won't mess with it once it's out" policy was a mistake from the beginning and, just like you, think they should go the same route as Fractal. If it's broken, fix it. If it can be improved, improve it.

But then I open TEH OFFICIAL ORIGINAL FACEBOOK GROUP and see question like "why is the distortion I want to add greyed out, I have two amps and three distortions in my preset already". And then I'm like fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck, this is also the type of users they have to deal with, maybe it wasn't a mistake.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

If they’re that determined not to remove released functionality to users, then they could just add a switch or additional model.

I think some things like missing bright caps or small mods are fine as is, but when it’s something that’s not behaving the way it was ever intended its a definitely cause to fix. If the real amp does it, maybe you’d think it was cool once or twice and then you’d think “ok, I should probably get this looked at now because something isn’t right”. It may be a novel quirk but it’s not really what it’s going to be most useful for in the long term.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

Also makes me wonder a bit about the beta testing and how things like this slip through the net. It happens but stuff like this should be so obvious (I noticed basically as soon as I started trying Metallurgy when it was released)

 

[JiveTurkey]

If all the beta testers wear Rhett Shull hats; it stands to reason no one has any idea that amps that should have balls are broken

 

[James Freeman]

I'm only guessing but I think Line 6's approach to modeling does not allow for quick fixes.
If for example there's a missing bright cap, they have to fix the real amp, measure the new response of the Gain from 0 to 10, and then re-model the new response all over again, that's a lot of work.
Plus there's Joe on Facebook that REALLY likes how this model sounds.

Unless it's a minor output volume tweak, when Line 6 releases an amp model it is DONE.

I think the whole "we won't mess with it once it's out" policy was a mistake from the beginning and, just like you, think they should go the same route as Fractal. If it's broken, fix it. If it can be improved, improve it.

100%

 

[MirrorProfiles]

I'm only guessing but I think Line 6's approach to modeling does not allow for quick fixes.
If for example there's a missing bright cap, they have to fix the real amp, measure the new response of the Gain from 0 to 10, and then re-model the new response all over again, that's a lot of work.
Plus there's Joe on Facebook that REALLY likes how this model sounds.

Unless it's a minor output volume tweak, when Line 6 releases an amp model it is DONE.

It would suggest that there may be flaws in their approach if things like this are either not identified early enough, or not easily fixable after the fact. They're obviously not the only company that this is relevant for, but in the case of the Vitriol Crunch channel, all that hard work goes in the bin if they've accurately modeled a fucked amp.

I can understand the "joe on facebook" situation with something like a bright cap, where it could be down to the individual's preference, but the Vitriol thing isnt even a creative modification or tweak - it literally sounds like its broken. Either way, IMO, it needs fixing or totally redoing, which is immensely frustrating.

 

[JiveTurkey]

 

[DieSchmalle]

Since the Vitriol is part of a 100$ plugin that is out there for a while now I really don't get why this wasn't fixed.

It's an obvious flaw in the model - even I immediately noticed it was of. It's not only fuzzy - it almost cuts out for half a second when the wrong notes hit it hard.

I posted the following clip on TGP in during the first week of V3.5 in november - it was barely recognized.

While the exact same chugga is played (looper) the pre gain is scanned from 6 to 10 and back to 6.

For some reason the model can't handle the vitriol of D power chords

 

[James Freeman]

I posted the following clip on TGP in during the first week of V3.5 in november - it was barely recognized.

Our multiple attempts to alert Line 6 regarding the Vitriol Crunch were not recognized either.
Out of 100,000's users only 3 people complained on some forum, maybe (probably) it's just not worth their time to fix it?

On the other hand, how many hours Ben and the sound design gang already invested to model the Crunch channel?

 

[pipelineaudio]

Software developers have numerous ways to deal with NOT breaking existing mixes. Helix users are free to keep their old firmware, though I realize this could be sadly giving up some of the newer features, but it is certainly an option

 

[SwirlyMaple]

@benadrian @Digital Igloo Hi guys. Not trying to be a pain, just wanted to see if you were aware of this seemingly-broken behavior with the Vitriol crunch channel.

Here are two posts from this thread with demo clips clearly showing the issue. It has been present since the model was first released:

Since the Vitriol is part of a 100$ plugin that is out there for a while now I really don't get why this wasn't fixed.

It's an obvious flaw in the model - even I immediately noticed it was of. It's not only fuzzy - it almost cuts out for half a second when the wrong notes hit it hard.

I posted the following clip on TGP in during the first week of V3.5 in november - it was barely recognized.

While the exact same chugga is played (looper) the pre gain is scanned from 6 to 10 and back to 6.

Since this thread got resurrected, has anyone tried the Vitriol Crunch in 3.6 to see if it's still borked?

Ed's vid of the problem from 3.5 (it's really obvious at 1:20 and beyond):

 

[Alex Kenivel]

I put a feeler out, will see what teh boyz say

 

[Ed DeGenaro]

Fwiw when we did the Univalve design at THD it did the same thing when hit hard with Emg 81s…I could literally get the amp to stop.
It simply hit its Limitation past a certain input level. Actually that is what started me in stacking drives.

 

[James Freeman]

Fwiw when we did the Univalve design at THD it did the same thing when hit hard with Emg 81s…I could literally get the amp to stop.

That's preamp blocking distortion, amp designers tweak the gain stages very carefully to avoid that.
Gain + big caps + low frequencies = gated fart generator.

 

[James Freeman]

Vitriol Crunch, Gain on 5 then 10.

 

[Ed DeGenaro]

That's preamp blocking distortion, amp designers tweak the gain stages very carefully to avoid that.
Gain + big caps + low frequencies = gated fart generator.

Yeah I get that I was VP at THD for decade. That said the UniValve literally gets all its distortion from the power tubes.

 

[Ed DeGenaro]

Vitriol Crunch, Gain on 5 then 10.

That does indeed sound like wet ass or a univalve with an overloaded input.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

Not the greatest modded Marshall I’ve ever heard, but absolutely one of the better sounding Lee Jackson mods

 

[Sascha Franck]

Fwiw, back in my HX Floor days, the 2204 Mod used to be my #1 platform for all dirt sounds, but I used it at extremely low gain settings (around 0.8) so I had more variety by using pedals (internal HX ones) in front.
Just fired up HX Native in the Belgian hotel (middle of nowhere) I'm sitting in and still like it, so I just jammed for some minutes. Not necessarily made for that kinda music, though, but if I had nothing else I'd be perfectly happy as well (rhythm is just the amp, lead has the Prize Drive and a bit of Vetta Comp in front).

 

[banned]

Fwiw, back in my HX Floor days, the 2204 Mod used to be my #1 platform for all dirt sounds, but I used it at extremely low gain settings (around 0.8) so I had more variety by using pedals (internal HX ones) in front.
Just fired up HX Native in the Belgian hotel (middle of nowhere) I'm sitting in and still like it, so I just jammed for some minutes. Not necessarily made for that kinda music, though, but if I had nothing else I'd be perfectly happy as well (rhythm is just the amp, lead has the Prize Drive and a bit of Vetta Comp in front).

Honestly, what you're playing through matters little when you can play. That's some tasty tone and playing.