Helix 2204 Mod

[HotRats]

(the Crunch channel is totally broken btw),

ouch, what's wrong with the model? (isn't that one coming from metallurgy plug-in?, is it broken also in the plugin?)
I haven't tried that model because is not my kind of amp. I'm just curious

 

[James Freeman]

ouch, what's wrong with the model?

It has a massive DC bias shift, sound like a broken gated fuzz when you play staccato notes on the lower string with a lot of gain.
I think people reported that the real amp doesn't do that?

 

[Bob Zaod]

I snagged 2 of the Crate Stealth (Lee Jackson designed) 100 heads years ago. I think I have
less than $300 into both of them. They are heavy, ugly, and not sure how reliable they are.
They do sound f'ing awesome, though.

They appear to have all the Marshall Mods Lee was known for---including that extra tube-driven
gain stage (that is footswitchable on the Stealth). Cheap as f**k build quality.

The ad speak on the Manual is f'ing hilarious.

View attachment 2433

If you are good at re-flowing/re-doing cold solder joints and properly cleaning a tube amp, the old Crate tube amps like the Stealth, Vintage Club, Palomino and VFX are some of the best deals around to this day. Tone-wise I'd put my Palomino 50 up against any EL34 Marshall or Marshall flavored channel switcher. I even like the Blue Doodoo. I think it got a bad rap due to being made by Crate. Again though needs to be gone through because of the cheap solder and wave soldering technique used at the factory.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

It has a massive DC bias shift, sound like a broken gated fuzz when you play staccato notes on the lower string with a lot of gain.
I think people reported that the real amp doesn't do that?




I really didn't want to post that clip, I think Line 6 already acknowledged that bug?
Maybe not, no idea.

christ almighty, please tell me you reported this? how on earth did it get signed off/through beta?

 

[JiveTurkey]

christ almighty, please tell me you reported this? how on earth did it get signed off/through beta?

Too Many Tweed PlayersTM

 

[HotRats]

It has a massive DC bias shift, sound like a broken gated fuzz when you play staccato notes on the lower string with a lot of gain.
I think people reported that the real amp doesn't do that?




I really didn't want to post that clip, I think Line 6 already acknowledged that bug?
Maybe not, no idea.

jesu christ. that's really broken

Too Many Tweed PlayersTM

I have no idea how beta testing is supposed to be managed but if a new amp doesn't get tested or testers don't spot an obvious issue there's somenthing to improve in the area.

 

[JiveTurkey]

I tried dialing the Vitriol from scratch and I had zero luck. The factory preset with it was d@mn good from the jump so I did some micro tweaks to it instead.

 

[James Freeman]

christ almighty, please tell me you reported this? how on earth did it get signed off/through beta?

I've demoed Metallurgy when it launched many moons ago but didn't notice this.
No idea what they do in beta but I would include a mandatory test with hot pickups like EMG81 and also test how the real amp/pedal behaves with a clean flat 20db boost in front of it in early development stages of the model.

 

[TheTrueZoltan!]

Yep, the Vitriol Crunch sounds like @$$ with the gain above 7. Up until 7 it sounds fine to me, though. With a good boost in front that‘s enough - for me at least - to get a tight metal sound.

 

[James Freeman]

I feel the need to clarify something about the Vitriol Crunch gating bug.
It's not that extreme with normal settings like Gain on 10 and boosted with a SD-1 for example, it only happens when you give it unrealistically hot clean signal way above realistic/normal working range.

I also have to point that I've calibrated my Audio Interface and Helix Native to my Helix Floor and I have to lower Native global input by -3.9db to exactly match the Helix hardware.
In that demo I've boosted the input in Helix Native all the way up to +18db effectively +22db above Helix Floor level.

Again, I didn't want to post that demo because I have no idea how the Peavey Invective Crunch channel behaves with an unrealistic +22db clean boost in front of it with an already hot EMG81 guitar.

With that being said, the Solo Lead Crunch model doesn't do that gating/choking with a +22db of boost with Gain at 10 despite being just as fat sounding as the Vitriol Crunch.

If I would have to guess the reason for this gating/choking bug in the Vitriol Crunch channel I would say it is a huge bypass cap that shifts the DC way too much hence the gating/choking pumping noise.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

I feel the need to clarify something about the Vitriol Crunch gating bug.
It's not that extreme with normal settings like Gain on 10 and boosted with a SD-1 for example, it only happens when you give it unrealistically hot clean signal way above realistic/normal working range.

I also have to point that I've calibrated my Audio Interface and Helix Native to my Helix Floor and I have to lower Native global input by -3.9db to exactly match the Helix hardware.
In that demo I've boosted the input in Helix Native all the way up to +18db effectively +22db above Helix Floor level.

Again, I didn't want to post that demo because I have no idea how the Peavey Invective Crunch channel behaves with an unrealistic +22db clean boost in front of it with an already hot EMG81 guitar.

With that being said, the Solo Lead Crunch model doesn't do that gating/choking with a +22db of boost with Gain at 10 despite being just as fat sounding as the Vitriol Crunch.

If I would have to guess the reason for this gating/choking bug in the Vitriol Crunch channel I would say it is a huge bypass cap that shifts the DC way too much hence the gating/choking pumping noise.

Your example demonstrates it beyond any doubt, but you can definitely hear it doing this to a smaller extent at more normal settings.

When I demo'd Metallurgy around when it was released, I was able to hear this choking effect with the DI signal within their expected range and with the gain at 8. Its obviously not as exaggerated as your demo with the input slammed, but its definitely there in a way that the real amp doesn't do. Its really not uncommon to have the gain up around where I have it and use a tubescreamer to boost the input a good amount more than I'm doing.



I played single note twangy stuff just to exaggerate the effect

 

[Hush]

It's not a bug it's a feature. You have discovered the hidden gated super compressed overdrive effect.

 

[Jarick]

It's not a bug it's a feature. You have discovered the hidden gated super compressed overdrive effect.

Need to get the actual amp modded to enable this feature.

 

[la szum]

Ah nice! I’m pretty sure this same circuit has made it into various amps from him.

Do you happen to have a Helix (or Helix Native plugin) that you can compare this to?

I do not.

 

[la szum]

It has a massive DC bias shift, sound like a broken gated fuzz when you play staccato notes on the lower string with a lot of gain.
I think people reported that the real amp doesn't do that?




I really didn't want to post that clip, I think Line 6 already acknowledged that bug?
Maybe not, no idea.

EDIT:
That's with gain at 10, and a +12db clean boost, playing with EMG81.

Matt Bellamy from Muse has entered the chat.....

 

[shanesiegle]

I must be doing something wrong I can’t get that model to work for me at all.

 

[kartikg3]

I declare this thread as the "Will Helix ever get an accurate JCM800 model? (MK.II)".

The Vitriol quenched my desire for a 5150III model (the Crunch channel is totally broken btw), but no way in hell I will accept a "close enough" replacement for a proper JCM800.

They fixed the Rat, they fixed the DS-1, now it is time to admit the 2204 model is s**t and model a proper BONE STOCK NORMAL JCM800, both High and Low inputs as the Low input bypasses a 12ax7 gain stage which is not just a pad.

Don't let the Helix EOL without a kick ass JCM800 ffs, that' the ultimate sin.

100%. Yes please, Line 6. More than half of my Stomp presets are filled with blocks and amps that sort of get close to a JCM800

 

[SwirlyMaple]

Since this thread got resurrected, has anyone tried the Vitriol Crunch in 3.6 to see if it's still borked?

Ed's vid of the problem from 3.5 (it's really obvious at 1:20 and beyond):

 

[the-trooper]

to see if it's still borked?

Haven't tried it, but probably yes. Because L6 doesn't fix their amps, because of those two users who might like the borked sound.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

Haven't tried it, but probably yes. Because L6 doesn't fix their amps, because of those two users who might like the borked sound.

I understand their stance in some regards (if something sounds cool and interesting as a result), but this one completely spoils what you’d use a 5150/invective for unless it’s fixed.

I get if it’s a fuzz or distortion that’s being used to make some gnarly fucked up sounds that there may be value in a borked circuit. Protecting the potential users who might like that sound is totally something that should make Line 6 address their stance a bit.

Fractal users have to deal with WAY more obtrusive changes constantly (often for things that don’t even sound broken at all) and while sometimes it’s not ideal, people just get on with it. The users who get absolutely no value out of a model should be valued equally to the ones that are getting value out of something that’s buggered.