Hardware Modeller as a Bedroom Player

[sevenagn]

Hi guys. I'm currently contemplating the idea of getting a high end modeller (mainly Fractal FM3 or Quad Cortex (roughly same price in my country), but I'm trying to justify the cost being a bedroom player. I'm already "invested" in two NDSP plugins, so the QC would make more sense.

Right now, I'm playing through plugins (NAM, NDSP, UAD PGS and Tonex) with a good interface (Presonus Quantum HD2 - 3.2ms RTL @ 32 samples - 21dbu Max Input Level).

My experience with modellers are very little. I had a VAMP and a zoom G5 when I was a kid, and last year I got Ampero 2 Stomp to try it out for a couple of days. Really enjoyed the feel and "immediacy" of the Ampero Stomp, even though theoretically, I could get better RTL with my interface. I'm also working in a computer basically 24/7, so not needing to have a computer to just jam would be also good)

What do you guys think about it? Do QC, or fractal hardware offer better sound and feel than plugins?

 

[laxu]

Do QC, or fractal hardware offer better sound and feel than plugins?

Yes, no, maybe. It depends.

I do prefer hardware units because like you, I spend enough time on the computer so getting away from that is nice.

But if you are already using all of those plugins, and are overall happy with how it feels to play then maybe you don't need a hardware unit.

 

[FuzzyAce]

Hi guys. I'm currently contemplating the idea of getting a high end modeller (mainly Fractal FM3 or Quad Cortex (roughly same price in my country), but I'm trying to justify the cost being a bedroom player. I'm already "invested" in two NDSP plugins, so the QC would make more sense.

Right now, I'm playing through plugins (NAM, NDSP, UAD PGS and Tonex) with a good interface (Presonus Quantum HD2 - 3.2ms RTL @ 32 samples - 21dbu Max Input Level).

My experience with modellers are very little. I had a VAMP and a zoom G5 when I was a kid, and last year I got Ampero 2 Stomp to try it out for a couple of days. Really enjoyed the feel and "immediacy" of the Ampero Stomp, even though theoretically, I could get better RTL with my interface. I'm also working in a computer basically 24/7, so not needing to have a computer to just jam would be also good)

What do you guys think about it? Do QC, or fractal hardware offer better sound and feel than plugins?

For just bedroom playing, plugins are great. And they're no fuss to record with either. If you need volume use monitors. That said, can't go wrong with a helix stomp or a fractal AM4. Love them both. Add a FR cab if needed.

 

[deadpool_25]

You may get marginally less latency through some modelers if they are connected directly to your monitoring system and that could affect feel. I’m not sure that’s worth the cost on its own but that’s definitely subjective.

I think the tones you’ll get can be similarly good between all of them, as you can get excellent tones from an amazing number of things these days.

Maybe if there are things you’re specifically targeting a given modeler might make sense. For example some Fractal effects are super cool and kinda unique and may not be as easy and/or DSP/CPU-effecient to run or recreate in a DAW.

There are also workflow considerations. If you’d prefer working on the modeler than inside the DAW that could be another reason to buy a modeler.

 

[sleewell]

honestly i would just save your money or spend it on something else unless you think you would ever have a need to be able to go play somewhere else.

 

[FuzzyAce]

honestly i would just save your money or spend it on something else unless you think you would ever have a need to be able to go play somewhere else.

Save money?!

 

[saarangnarayan]

I have always felt that a dedicated digital device feels better under the fingers and more fun to play than plugins in general. I have plugins from NDSP, Two Notes Genome, ML Sound Labs' JCM style thing and Friedman suite, Brainworx Friedman BE-100, IK Multimedia Amplitube, some Aurora DSP stuff, and a Bogren Digital MLC Sub Zero. Most of them sound great, but even my ye olde POD X3 Live sounds more fun to play through the same monitors, let alone my Fractal devices.

 

[Southpaw-DD]

I only play at home but I love having a variety of gear. If I got into a bind w/ finances, the first things to go would be my hardware digital modelers and I would use plug-ins only. I don't love working with a DAW or Gig Performer to setup presets or patches (feels too much like my day job in IT management) and that for me is where the hardware units are more fun and something different to keep my interest.

 

[LP59]

Hi guys. I'm currently contemplating the idea of getting a high end modeller (mainly Fractal FM3 or Quad Cortex (roughly same price in my country), but I'm trying to justify the cost being a bedroom player. I'm already "invested" in two NDSP plugins, so the QC would make more sense.

Right now, I'm playing through plugins (NAM, NDSP, UAD PGS and Tonex) with a good interface (Presonus Quantum HD2 - 3.2ms RTL @ 32 samples - 21dbu Max Input Level).

My experience with modellers are very little. I had a VAMP and a zoom G5 when I was a kid, and last year I got Ampero 2 Stomp to try it out for a couple of days. Really enjoyed the feel and "immediacy" of the Ampero Stomp, even though theoretically, I could get better RTL with my interface. I'm also working in a computer basically 24/7, so not needing to have a computer to just jam would be also good)

What do you guys think about it? Do QC, or fractal hardware offer better sound and feel than plugins?

The biggest difference between hardware and a plugin is remote control. The footswitches on an FM3 have more features than you can get with a midi controller connected to a plugin.

There's also the immediacy factor. With hardware, there are fewer things to turn on and launch before you can start playing.

Latency will always be lower on a dedicated hardware device, but it may not be a noticeable difference to you.

 

[sashimi]

I can’t stand waiting for a computer to be ready before I can play. Especially when the plugin doesn’t have a stand alone app, and I have to load the DAW. So I think a hardware modeler is worth it. I play more frequently when I have dedicated gear ready to turn on and play.

 

[ivanmancic]

I've been in your position and went though the whole cycle, from plugins to GT1000 Core, FM3, back to plugins, then Katana Go and just yesterday to Ampero II.
Generally, all of it can sound good.
FM3 definitely sounds and feels the best, but I gave up on it due to off-putting UI that the sound does not make up for.
Boss stuff feels amazing and is fun, but getting the sound you want requires more tinkering that most other platforms in my experience.
After getting Katana Go as a cheep practice toy, the feel and immediacy of it made me consider getting another bigger Boss unit again, as it just makes me play more than any plugin. Sounds pretty good to when dialed in.
Its not just the latency though, but just the whole experience - plug it in and go, no computer, running software etc.
Ultimately, I decided to go back to hardware so I can have a hands-on unit, and be able to get the low latency even when I'm recording in an already set up session with a bunch of processing on other tracks.
I sold my audio interface and got Ampero II to be both that and a modeler, and I think I'll be quite happy with it.
Plus, it is a hardware and retains some resale value if I ever want to get something else (I haven't lost a dime on GT1000 Core and FM3), while all plugins I bought and don't use anymore are basically a waste of money now.

 

[AlbertA]

Hi guys. I'm currently contemplating the idea of getting a high end modeller (mainly Fractal FM3 or Quad Cortex (roughly same price in my country), but I'm trying to justify the cost being a bedroom player. I'm already "invested" in two NDSP plugins, so the QC would make more sense.

Not sure what the cost of the AM4 would be for you - here in the US the entry point makes it very attractive *$700 + tax + shipping" and you would be set for a while with the amount of stuff it packs.

Right now, I'm playing through plugins (NAM, NDSP, UAD PGS and Tonex) with a good interface (Presonus Quantum HD2 - 3.2ms RTL @ 32 samples - 21dbu Max Input Level).

Plugin variety can be good - but I find the "manual" calibration annoying. IMO, a hardware modeler offers more consistency.

My experience with modellers are very little. I had a VAMP and a zoom G5 when I was a kid, and last year I got Ampero 2 Stomp to try it out for a couple of days. Really enjoyed the feel and "immediacy" of the Ampero Stomp, even though theoretically, I could get better RTL with my interface. I'm also working in a computer basically 24/7, so not needing to have a computer to just jam would be also good)

Feel and immediacy is not all related to just overall system latency. It can also be the quality of the amp emulation.

What do you guys think about it? Do QC, or fractal hardware offer better sound and feel than plugins?

The fractal stuff is still king IMO in terms of high quality emulations and effects.
But how much better? Depends on the plugin - from little to big.

There's also the consistency and control (footswitches) that a hardware modeler will offer - not that you can't achieve that with plugins, but will require more forethought and individual fiddling with each plugin.

Just depends on what you do.

 

[sevenagn]

I have always felt that a dedicated digital device feels better under the fingers and more fun to play than plugins in general. I have plugins from NDSP, Two Notes Genome, ML Sound Labs' JCM style thing and Friedman suite, Brainworx Friedman BE-100, IK Multimedia Amplitube, some Aurora DSP stuff, and a Bogren Digital MLC Sub Zero. Most of them sound great, but even my ye olde POD X3 Live sounds more fun to play through the same monitors, let alone my Fractal devices.

That's exactly what I felt when I had the Ampero 2 Stomp vs plugins tbh.

I only play at home but I love having a variety of gear. If I got into a bind w/ finances, the first things to go would be my hardware digital modelers and I would use plug-ins only. I don't love working with a DAW or Gig Performer to setup presets or patches (feels too much like my day job in IT management) and that for me is where the hardware units are more fun and something different to keep my interest.

I also work on IT and that's I think the main problem, hahaha. I actually sold my gaming PC last year because I could not stand sitting in my work desk with a mouse and keyboard anymore, even for playing stuff.

 

[sevenagn]

I've been in your position and went though the whole cycle, from plugins to GT1000 Core, FM3, back to plugins, then Katana Go and just yesterday to Ampero II.
Generally, all of it can sound good.
FM3 definitely sounds and feels the best, but I gave up on it due to off-putting UI that the sound does not make up for.
Boss stuff feels amazing and is fun, but getting the sound you want requires more tinkering that most other platforms in my experience.
After getting Katana Go as a cheep practice toy, the feel and immediacy of it made me consider getting another bigger Boss unit again, as it just makes me play more than any plugin. Sounds pretty good to when dialed in.
Its not just the latency though, but just the whole experience - plug it in and go, no computer, running software etc.
Ultimately, I decided to go back to hardware so I can have a hands-on unit, and be able to get the low latency even when I'm recording in an already set up session with a bunch of processing on other tracks.
I sold my audio interface and got Ampero II to be both that and a modeler, and I think I'll be quite happy with it.
Plus, it is a hardware and retains some resale value if I ever want to get something else (I haven't lost a dime on GT1000 Core and FM3), while all plugins I bought and don't use anymore are basically a waste of money now.

That's my main concern with fractal stuff. I would like to have an unit that I can edit on itself, because the whole point for me is to get out from the computer. I was thinking of the QC mainly because of the UI, tbh. The Ampero has a good UI as well, and also a really good price here, so it is also a option to me.

 

[sevenagn]

Not sure what the cost of the AM4 would be for you - here in the US the entry point makes it very attractive *$700 + tax + shipping" and you would be set for a while with the amount of stuff it packs.

I have been told by the distributor that it will basically be in the middle of the VP4 and the FM3. The VP4 here is 8K, FM3 is 12K, so probably 10K. I can get a QC for 12.5K (actually a good price, even though everything here is extremely overpriced). For comparison, Ampero 2 Stage is 4.5K. Helix and TMP prices do not make sense at all, so I'm not even considering them.

Plugin variety can be good - but I find the "manual" calibration annoying. IMO, a hardware modeler offers more consistency.

My input volume is all over the place tbh. I already lost so much time calibrating that I gave up. I just add 10 - 17db nowadays to my input and thats it.

There's also the consistency and control (footswitches) that a hardware modeler will offer - not that you can't achieve that with plugins, but will require more forethought and individual fiddling with each plugin.

Just depends on what you do.

Thats a good point as well. I actually have a mvave midi controller and a expression pedal that I bought for the sake of using the pedals on NDSP Gojira, but never got quite right, also being bluetooth, the latency is horrible, so ultimately i just gave up as well.

 

[Ipkz]

I currently have a great computer and a nice interface, and I’m still considering buying a dedicated hardware modeler, even though I rarely play outside of home.

I’m very happy with the sounds I get from plugins (currently using Cory Wong, Gojira and Genome), so sound quality is not really the issue. What keeps pulling me toward hardware is everything around the experience: having to turn on the PC every time, dealing with distractions and not being able to easily take the setup to other places. All of that matters more to me than I initially thought.

Another point is latency and workflow. When using many plugins inside a DAW, you always have to be mindful of added latency, buffer sizes, and how your project gets heavier and slower to load over time. With dedicated hardware your monitoring latency is predictable, and (I think?) independent of how complex your session becomes.

With dedicated hardware you can record wherever and however you want. iPad, Linux, Windows, Mac... It doesn’t matter. You’re not optimizing drivers, doing OS updates, or dealing with plugin quirks. You just plug in and play. So even though plugins sound great and are incredibly powerful, I can see why people still gravitate toward hardware.

 

[AlbertA]

I have been told by the distributor that it will basically be in the middle of the VP4 and the FM3. The VP4 here is 8K, FM3 is 12K, so probably 10K. I can get a QC for 12.5K (actually a good price, even though everything here is extremely overpriced). For comparison, Ampero 2 Stage is 4.5K. Helix and TMP prices do not make sense at all, so I'm not even considering them.

Is that the QC mini? or full QC? Yeah at those prices - QC makes total sense then. Here the mini is 2x an AM4.

 

[sevenagn]

Is that the QC mini? or full QC? Yeah at those prices - QC makes total sense then. Here the mini is 2x an AM4.

The full QC. The mini will not be available any time soon here I think. Also, we do not have an official Neural dealer here (not that I know), so all of this stuff is imported from EU by small dealers/people. The fractal stuff is sold by the official brazilian dealer.

 

[ragingplatypi]

I’m not sure if I missed it, but is Line 6 off the table? I do all my editing in the box on my Helix LT and it’s a great experience.

 

[Jim Soloway]

I started using a VST host about 6 weeks ago and I love it. I tested Gig Performer and Cantabile Lite and settled on Cantabile Lite for now just because it allows me to experiment and test for no cost. There's no noticeable latency. None of the bloat of wading through my DAW just to play guitar, incredible flexibility and I've been able to come us with some really satisfying sounds. I have no idea if I could gig with it but for playing at my desk it's an absolute pleasure.