HAAALP with lowered tunings

[mbenigni]

Does it have Grover’s or the Kluson style “Epiphone Deluxe” tuners?

I doubt the tuners are part of the tuning problems you’re having, but I get wanting to have locking tuners.

Ever consider a string butler?

No idea on the tuners. Specs just say "nickel". I'm guessing "cheap". They do feel like crap - a lot of dead play followed by too much turning resistance. (I've tried to adjust screw tension with out any luck.)

I did consider a string butler a couple of months back. I'd never heard of these before, but someone mentioned it in one of the many online discussions concerning Gibson 3+3 tuning issues. I don't know... $50, and it's going to add a little weight to the wrong end of the guitar, and looking at the angles off the nut, it's hard to imagine it making a big difference? But I'll keep it on my list of things to try. It's probably the sort of item I could just return to Amazon if it didn't improve matters.

Locking tuners - especially self-cropping locking tuners - appeal to my endless supply of laziness.

 

[JT]

 

[mbenigni]

That weird coffee table red brown look is just gross to me?

AKA Pothead Red™.

 

[metropolis_4]

No idea on the tuners. Specs just say "nickel". I'm guessing "cheap". They do feel like crap - a lot of dead play followed by too much turning resistance. (I've tried to adjust screw tension with out any luck.)

I did consider a string butler a couple of months back. I'd never heard of these before, but someone mentioned it in one of the many online discussions concerning Gibson 3+3 tuning issues. I don't know... $50, and it's going to add a little weight to the wrong end of the guitar, and looking at the angles off the nut, it's hard to imagine it making a big difference? But I'll keep it on my list of things to try. It's probably the sort of item I could just return to Amazon if it didn't improve matters.

Locking tuners - especially self-cropping locking tuners - appeal to my endless supply of laziness.

What model is it? That's weird, even my cheap IBG 335 has the Kluson style "Epiphone Deluxe" tuners.

I haven't used a string butler, but people I know who's opinion I trust have raved about the improvement in tuning stability it's given them.

I'm with you on locking tuners, I can't stand not having them. Especially on any headstock with tuners on the treble side

 

[JT]

AKA Pothead Red™.

This is my shape

 

[mbenigni]

I have the Epi Iommi Custom SG. Bought it used... I think it had 10s on it when I bought it. It's in standard tuning now with 9s. It doesn't have any tuning issues and I love the pickups. @mbenigni sorry you're having trouble with yours.

There are enough signature Iommi SGs that I start to get confused. If yours is a "Custom" then I think it's the same as mine:

Epiphone Tony Iommi SG Custom Electric Guitar - Ebony

Solidbody Electric Guitar with Mahogany Body, Mahogany Neck, Ebony Fingerboard, Fingerboard Binding, Cross Inlays, and 2 Humbucking Pickups - Ebony

www.sweetwater.com

That would be encouraging, since I sometimes worry that the design just isn't tenable for a 24 fret neck. My inner "let's throw good money after bad" voice has been looking at this newer Special model. 22 frets and P90s (and @metropolis_4, Grover Rotomatics per the specs):

Epiphone Tony Iommi SG Special Electric Guitar - Vintage Cherry

Solidbody Electric Guitar with Mahogany Body and Neck, Laurel Fingerboard, and 2 Single-coil Pickups - Vintage Cherry

www.sweetwater.com

In Pothead Red, just for JiveTurkey.

 

[JT]

There are enough signature Iommi SGs that I start to get confused. If yours is a "Custom" then I think it's the same as mine:

Epiphone Tony Iommi SG Custom Electric Guitar - Ebony

Solidbody Electric Guitar with Mahogany Body, Mahogany Neck, Ebony Fingerboard, Fingerboard Binding, Cross Inlays, and 2 Humbucking Pickups - Ebony

www.sweetwater.com

That would be encouraging, since I sometimes worry that the design just isn't tenable for a 24 fret neck. My inner "let's throw good money after bad" voice has been looking at this newer model. 22 frets and P90s:

Epiphone Tony Iommi SG Special Electric Guitar - Vintage Cherry

Solidbody Electric Guitar with Mahogany Body and Neck, Laurel Fingerboard, and 2 Single-coil Pickups - Vintage Cherry

www.sweetwater.com

In Pothead Red, just for JiveTurkey.

Too much Epiphone in this post

 

[mbenigni]

This is my shape

You're drunk, Uma - that's a rectangle.

 

[mbenigni]

Too much Epiphone in this post

I'd be happy to take donations for my Gibson Custom Shop Monkey (in Pothead Brown).

Gibson Custom Shop Tony Iommi Monkey 1964 SG Special Replica Aged and Signed #TONY IOMMI RH #6

It's safe to say that without this guitar, Heavy Metal as a genre would not exist. This is the iconic Tony Iommi "Monkey" 1964 SG Special, replicated to every inch and detail by the Gibson Custom Shop. This is the top of the line Aged and Signed version in the right-handed incarnation just like...

www.themusiczoo.com

 

[metropolis_4]

There are enough signature Iommi SGs that I start to get confused. If yours is a "Custom" then I think it's the same as mine:

Epiphone Tony Iommi SG Custom Electric Guitar - Ebony

Solidbody Electric Guitar with Mahogany Body, Mahogany Neck, Ebony Fingerboard, Fingerboard Binding, Cross Inlays, and 2 Humbucking Pickups - Ebony

www.sweetwater.com

That would be encouraging, since I sometimes worry that the design just isn't tenable for a 24 fret neck. My inner "let's throw good money after bad" voice has been looking at this newer model. 22 frets and P90s:

Epiphone Tony Iommi SG Special Electric Guitar - Vintage Cherry

Solidbody Electric Guitar with Mahogany Body and Neck, Laurel Fingerboard, and 2 Single-coil Pickups - Vintage Cherry

www.sweetwater.com

In Pothead Red, just for JiveTurkey.

Oh weird, those are super cheap tuners! I don't think they use those on any models anymore.

I bought my Epi 335 brand new for $450 and the Epiphone Deluxe tuners on it are not bad at all.


The ad says it's "Manufactured to be good enough for Tony to play onstage". Are you saying it's good enough for Tony, but not good enough for you?

 

[JT]

The Lava red color is actually cool. As is the Prophecy black Music Zoo is a DANGEROUS place to go. The clog up my FB feed and it is like an avalanche of constant GAS

 

[mbenigni]

Oh weird, those are super cheap tuners! I don't think they use those on any models anymore.

I bought my Epi 335 brand new for $450 and the Epiphone Deluxe tuners on it are not bad at all.


The ad says it's "Manufactured to be good enough for Tony to play onstage". Are you saying it's good enough for Tony, but not good enough for you?

"Inspired by actual events."

The tuners suck. I just can't seem to get a bead on what would be a good drop-in replacement. :/ Requirements: no drilling, similar weight, can actually tune the instrument. Nice to have: locking.

 

[metropolis_4]

"Inspired by actual events."

The tuners suck. I just can't seem to get a bead on what would be a good drop-in replacement. :/ Requirements: no drilling, similar weight, can actually tune the instrument. Nice to have: locking.

Take one of the tuners out and measure the size of the hole. I'd be surprised if the holes were any different size than standard Epi.

I always get replacements that use pins and I bought one of these to drill the pin holes: https://reverb.com/item/38069284-g-...single-two-pin-fender-schaller-squier-locking

It works great and is really easy.

 

[mbenigni]

Take one of the tuners out and measure the size of the hole. I'd be surprised if the holes were any different size than standard Epi.

I always get replacements that use pins and I bought one of these to drill the pin holes: https://reverb.com/item/38069284-g-...single-two-pin-fender-schaller-squier-locking

It works great and is really easy.

Thanks for the advice. I'm trying to avoid drilling for the set screw, even, but I might just have to get over that. That looks like a very useful tool - bookmarked!

 

[Rocco Crocco]

There are enough signature Iommi SGs that I start to get confused. If yours is a "Custom" then I think it's the same as mine:

Epiphone Tony Iommi SG Custom Electric Guitar - Ebony

Solidbody Electric Guitar with Mahogany Body, Mahogany Neck, Ebony Fingerboard, Fingerboard Binding, Cross Inlays, and 2 Humbucking Pickups - Ebony

www.sweetwater.com

That would be encouraging, since I sometimes worry that the design just isn't tenable for a 24 fret neck. My inner "let's throw good money after bad" voice has been looking at this newer Special model. 22 frets and P90s (and @metropolis_4, Grover Rotomatics per the specs):

Epiphone Tony Iommi SG Special Electric Guitar - Vintage Cherry

Solidbody Electric Guitar with Mahogany Body and Neck, Laurel Fingerboard, and 2 Single-coil Pickups - Vintage Cherry

www.sweetwater.com

In Pothead Red, just for JiveTurkey.

Yes that's the one I have... with the crosses on the fingerboard. I made this video awhile back.

 

[mbenigni]

Yes that's the one I have... with the crosses on the fingerboard. I made this video awhile back.

 

[Rocco Crocco]

OMG I just watched that video for the first time in forever. Dorkiest voiceover ever .

 

[mbenigni]

You can flip the saddles around to get a little more room

This did help with the intonation - thanks. I was a little worried it would increase friction at the bridge, but then I noticed that all the wound strings were already flipped like this anyway. Not something I'd ever paid attention to before.

Alas, tuning stability is still wack, even after ensuring strings are properly locked as described in @Bruce's post above. New strings and lubricant on their way - I'd added them to my cart a few days back and forgot to check out.

 

[mbenigni]

Finally got around to pulling one of the tuning machines off, and the marking underneath says, "MARVEL R8" (possibly "MARVEL RS"?) Definitely cheese. I'm amazed they'd get so much right elsewhere, and then try to save $20 or whatever by bolting these on. You can't make an out-of-tune guitar sound good with any pickups.

I found a guy trying to sell a set that someone else must have had the good sense to replace. (Maybe they came off @Rocco Crocco's Iommi Custom LOL.) His comment about a comic-themed guitar is great.

Marvel 6 on a side tuners | Reverb

These are clean, tight, 6 on a side tuners. I am not sure what they came from since I got them in a box of parts, but a quick internet search indicate probably a Yamaha Guitar. They are stamped on the underside with Marvel on them, so if you have a comic themed guitar these are the tu...

reverb.com

UPDATE: Tried to get one of my preferred D'Addario self-cropping locking tuners installed as a test. Looked to be the same diameter shaft. Got it halfway in and now it's stuck there. Can't even get it back out again. Whatever the case may be re: shaft diameter, it's close enough between the two that I'm not going to be able to measure the difference and identify differing standards or whatever. I think these might be "compatible" but for differences in tolerances?

What's more annoying: this is from a 6 inline set I happened to have laying around. The set screw is offset at the correct angle per the holes Epi drilled. All of the 3+3 sets I can find have the set screw straight off the block. I have no idea why 3+3 has to be different than 6 inline in this one way. Must have been decreed by the International Consortium of Evil Geniuses at some point.

Title my posthumous biography, "That Time I Bought a Guitar Thing and Never Played Guitar Again".

UPDATE UPDATE (because I know I have you all on the edge of your seats LOL): I took a chance on a set of Grover 406c's. They look like they'll work, according to my oh-so-accurate "eyeball it" technique.

 

[metropolis_4]

Finally got around to pulling one of the tuning machines off, and the marking underneath says, "MARVEL R8" (possibly "MARVEL RS"?) Definitely cheese. I'm amazed they'd get so much right elsewhere, and then try to save $20 or whatever by bolting these on. You can't make an out-of-tune guitar sound good with any pickups.

I found a guy trying sell a set that someone else must have had the good sense to replace. His comment about a comic-themed guitar is great.

Marvel 6 on a side tuners | Reverb

These are clean, tight, 6 on a side tuners. I am not sure what they came from since I got them in a box of parts, but a quick internet search indicate probably a Yamaha Guitar. They are stamped on the underside with Marvel on them, so if you have a comic themed guitar these are the tu...

reverb.com

UPDATE: Tried to get one of my preferred D'Addario self-cropping locking tuners installed as a test. Looked to be the same diameter shaft. Got it halfway in and now it's stuck there. Can't even get it back out again. Whatever the case may be re: shaft diameter, it's close enough between the two that I'm not going to be able to measure the difference and identify differing standards or whatever. I think these might be "compatible" but for differences in tolerances?

What's more annoying: this is from a 6 inline set I happened to have laying around. The set screw is offset at the correct angle per the wholes Epi drilled. All of the 3+3 sets I can find have the set screw straight off the block. I have no idea why 3+3 has to be different than 6 inline in this one way. Must have been decreed by the International Consortium of Evil Geniuses at some point.

Title my posthumous biography, "That Time I Bought a Guitar Thing and Never Played Guitar Again".

UPDATE UPDATE (because I know I have you all on the edge of your seats LOL): I took a chance on a set of Grover 406c's. They look like they'll work, according to my oh-so-accurate "eyeball it" technique.

Just like my grandpa taught me: "Eyeball it once, cut once"