Guitar tone hell

[Sascha Franck]

If I bring my own it might sound better to me, but it’s going to mess up levels, the sound guys will have to change all their settings for me, and it won’t sound the same as what everyone is expecting to hear.

In all honesty, these are the kind of gigs I wouldn't play anymore. If the FOH can't handle their input gain trimpots and don't give a damn about proper guitar sound, well - that's someting I really don't wanna deal with.

 

[Stratzrus]

Sometimes you just have to go with what you’re given.

If I bring my own it might sound better to me, but it’s going to mess up levels, the sound guys will have to change all their settings for me, and it won’t sound the same as what everyone is expecting to hear.

Sometimes the people you work for are going to be happier if you just go with the flow and don’t cause complications for them rather than changing everything up and creating more work for them for “improvements” in tone that they might not even notice.

Sad but true.

I had a gig where they told me to use their backline and when I got there it was a Line 6 Spider combo. I knew nothing about dialing one of those things in and there was no soundcheck.

I just plugged in, did basic BMT tone adjustments and played as well as I could.

The owner liked us so much he offered to book us on a regular basis. I politely thanked him and never set foot in that place again.

 

[dk_ace]

Sometimes you just have to go with what you’re given.

If I bring my own it might sound better to me, but it’s going to mess up levels, the sound guys will have to change all their settings for me, and it won’t sound the same as what everyone is expecting to hear.

Sometimes the people you work for are going to be happier if you just go with the flow and don’t cause complications for them rather than changing everything up and creating more work for them for “improvements” in tone that they might not even notice.

 

[jay mitchell]

So I get to spend the weekend playing whatever rig this venue provides. I get here and find…

A Digitech RP500

All part of being a pro. You gotta use the available tools even when they suck....

 

[dk_ace]

I can’t really imagine a gig where I’m forced to use an RP500, I’d just plug my own direct solution in without asking questions and turn the level knob until it was right. Being forced to use a back line amp is understandable enough and I can make that work fine, but a modeler? They’ll never know the difference other than probably noticing that you sounded better than other recent guitarists…

If I really wanted the gig for some reason though and I really didn’t think there was a path around the rp500, I can make just about anything work on a dime if I have to.

I don’t have any problems with the tones possible in the rp500, I just don’t want to fiddle with a modeler I’m unfamiliar with on a gig when I could just plug my own in.

I actually did have a gig once where they said they would have a modeler already set up for me to play through that was eq’d and leveled for the venue or some such nonsense. I told them I would be bringing my own instead and it would sound great. They bristled a little, and then said Ok. They knew me and my sound though, so I don’t know if I could have gotten away with that otherwise.

D

 

[Sascha Franck]

All part of being a pro. You gotta use the available tools even when they suck....

While I sort of agree, these days it's also about bringing the required tools. Which is easily possible with things such as the HX Stomp, GT-1000 Core and dozens of decent sounding chinese backpack compatible modelers around. For me, part of doing this professionally, is to always have some solution with me.

 

[la szum]

So I get to spend the weekend playing whatever rig this venue provides. I get here and find…

A Digitech RP500




Good lord… I have no words… I’d forgotten gear could sound this bad

I gigged one twice or so, in a pinch, with a Crate Powerblock.

Please don't tell anyone.

 

[metropolis_4]

Imagine you’re an MD looking to hire a guitarist. Which one are you gonna call first:

The guy who complained about your equipment not being good enough for him, demanded to use his own gear instead, annoyed your sound techs by making extra work for them, took apart the whole setup you had in place so he could plug in his own stuff, and required extra sound check time to get his gear set up and ready.

Or

The guy who came in, plugged in, and played the show

 

[Sascha Franck]

I can’t really imagine a gig where I’m forced to use an RP500, I’d just plug my own direct solution in without asking questions and turn the level knob until it was right.

This.

Btw, I will likely buy one of those new Mooer P2 devices just for such purposes (along with their BT floor controller). That should really fit anywhere.

 

[la szum]

Sometimes all you can do is roll with the punches

Builds character!!!

 

[Sascha Franck]

Imagine you’re an MD looking to hire a guitarist.

No. All I imagine is being a guitarist having to deal with an MD with no ears.

took apart the whole setup you had in place so he could plug in his own stuff

Aw, come on, the hyperbole. It's replacing one single unit with another single unit and have the FOH guys check their input levels. Done. Been there plenty of times.

 

[metropolis_4]

While I sort of agree, these days it's also about bringing the required tools. Which is easily possible with things such as the HX Stomp, GT-1000 Core and dozens of decent sounding chinese backpack compatible modelers around. For me, part of doing this professionally, is to always have some solution with me.

Not when nobody asked you to bring any tools and you were told to use the tools they provide for you

 

[la szum]

Imagine you’re an MD looking to hire a guitarist. Which one are you gonna call first:

The guy who complained about your equipment not being good enough for him, demanded to use his own gear instead, annoyed your sound techs by making extra work for them, took apart the whole setup you had in place so he could plug in his own stuff, and required extra sound check time to get his gear set up and ready.

Or

The guy who came in, plugged in, and played the show

1000%. Making waves, or complaining in any way, is, simply put, a way to cut your own damn legs off. Part
of the gig is making the tastiest shit sandwich you can if you are given sliced shit to work with, and then having
a pleasant and pleasing personality while you serve it up---even if you are quietly dying inside.

And if discussions need to be made, they are done afterwards, quietly, behind the scenes with whoever
hired you. And even then you may have to sway with the tonal breezes and find a way to bend and not break.
Because you may get the "Everyone else seems to be alright with it."
You're a Pro, Met!

 

[Sascha Franck]

Not when nobody asked you to bring any tools and you were told to use the tools they provide for you

Well, as said, if they insisted on me using something that sounded horrible, I'd tell them upfront that this was the first and only gig I'd be doing. I'm experienced enough not being treated like a tool and I know guitar sounds. If they don't, it's their loss.
Now ok, if that gig was super important and super well paid, I might make an exception, but you don't have dead MDs on super important and well paid gigs over here.

 

[metropolis_4]

Well, as said, if they insisted on me using something that sounded horrible, I'd tell them upfront that this was the first and only gig I'd be doing. I'm experienced enough not being treated like a tool and I know guitar sounds. If they don't, it's their loss.
Now ok, if that gig was super important and super well paid, I might make an exception, but you don't have dead MDs on super important and well paid gigs over here.

I guess I look at it differently.

I get to spend a weekend playing fun music with some cool people, making some money, making new connections, and opening up some doors for future work.

Yeah the guitar tone sucks. A lot. But I’m not gonna throw all of that away because of it. And I’m not gonna ruin it for myself by spending the weekend angry about it either.

 

[Sascha Franck]

I get to spend a weekend playing fun music with some cool people, making some money, making new connections, and opening up some doors for future work.

That's all fine. But I'm seriously wondering how all that could actually apply when the MD of that entire thing loves bad guitar sound so much.

 

[metropolis_4]

1000%. Making waves, or complaining in any way, is, simply put, a way to cut your own damn legs off. Part
of the gig is making the tastiest shit sandwich you can if you are given sliced shit to work with, and then having
a pleasant and pleasing personality while you serve it up---even if you are quietly dying inside.

And if discussions need to be made, they are done afterwards, quietly, behind the scenes with whoever
hired you. And even then you may have to sway with the tonal breezes and find a way to bend and not break.
Because you may get the "Everyone else seems to be alright with it."
You're a Pro, Met!

Exactly!

If you’ve paid me to play, I’m going to be as professional as possible and do it to the best of my ability with what I’ve got to work with. Find the positives to focus on and don’t sweat the small stuff.

I’m thinking through right now how I might be able to approach them after the weekend with some ideas of how I could help them create guitar sounds that better support the music they’re creating. I might be able to leverage that into an opportunity to bring some stuff in next time I play to show them how much better it can sound, or maybe even some consulting work to help them improve their gear setup.

 

[dk_ace]

1000%. Making waves, or complaining in any way, is, simply put, a way to cut your own damn legs off. Part
of the gig is making the tastiest shit sandwich you can if you are given sliced shit to work with, and then having
a pleasant and pleasing personality while you serve it up---even if you are quietly dying inside.

And if discussions need to be made, they are done afterwards, quietly, behind the scenes with whoever
hired you. And even then you may have to sway with the tonal breezes and find a way to bend and not break.
Because you may get the "Everyone else seems to be alright with it."
You're a Pro, Met!

I both agree, and disagree. The weird thing is that I treat this situation totally different between modelers and amps. If I show up and get told “use this amp” I say cool, plug a board in, turn some knobs, and rock on.

With a modeler, I just don’t. It’s too fiddly to try to get a modeler dialed in unless it’s just a basic dry clean sound that I can plug a board into like I would a back line amp. I plug my own rig in and go. Generally at a gig that’s running this way the monitoring situation is baked in too, so you can set your own level just getting the monitoring level right. The gig modeler was dialed in to someone else’s guitars and hands, it’s going to sound better off my own rig. I haven’t encountered anyone that couldn’t quickly understand that and be open to trying my rig. This assumes it’s a full rig modeling setup (dirt, compression, effects, etc). If it’s just doing a basic clean tone I can plug a board in and be off to the races, who cares.

This has come up like twice for me, usually the gigs that I’ve seen have direct solutions there are just accounting for guitarists that might show up and not have a silent stage option of their own. I have only seen one or two try to say that everyone needs to plug into the gig rig.

Another thought, some pros decide what they are and are not willing to do for a given gig and then stick to their guns. Dealing with whatever situation presents itself is a choice. You might choose to do it just to prove you can, but you don’t have to. Unless it pays good and you’re starving, then plug into whatever and keep your mouth shut lol.

D

 

[metropolis_4]

That's all fine. But I'm seriously wondering how all that could actually apply when the MD of that entire thing loves bad guitar sound so much.

Eh, you get varying levels of knowledge and attention to the nuances of guitar tones. Even among MDs.

I work with a trombonist who obsesses over his gear. He’s always trying out new mouthpieces, new slides, new horns and talking about how much better certain gear sounds. And to me it always just sounds… like a trombone. When we’re in the mix of the full band I don’t hear any difference in his tone.

Does that mean I love bad trombone sound?

 

[metropolis_4]

I both agree, and disagree. The weird thing is that I treat this situation totally different between modelers and amps. If I show up and get told “use this amp” I say cool, plug a board in, turn some knobs, and rock on.

With a modeler, I just don’t. It’s too fiddly to try to get a modeler dialed in unless it’s just a basic dry clean sound that I can plug a board into like I would a back line amp. I plug my own rig in and go. Generally at a gig that’s running this way the monitoring situation is baked in too, so you can set your own level just getting the monitoring level right. The gig modeler was dialed in to someone else’s guitars and hands, it’s going to sound better off my own rig. I haven’t encountered anyone that couldn’t quickly understand that and be open to trying my rig. This assumes it’s a full rig modeling setup (dirt, compression, effects, etc). If it’s just doing a basic clean tone I can plug a board in and be off to the races, who cares.

This has come up like twice for me, usually the gigs that I’ve seen have direct solutions there are just accounting for guitarists that might show up and not have a silent stage option of their own. I have only seen one or two try to say that everyone needs to plug into the gig rig.

Another thought, some pros decide what they are and are not willing to do for a given gig and then stick to their guns. Dealing with whatever situation presents itself is a choice. You might choose to do it just to prove you can, but you don’t have to. Unless it pays good and you’re starving, then plug into whatever and keep your mouth shut lol.

D

It’s all about priorities. If your tone is more important to you than the gig then turn it down and don’t deal with it.

That’s not where my priorities are. Like I said above, I get to spend a weekend playing fun music with some cool people, and I get to make some money, make some new connections, and open up some doors. To me that’s not worth throwing away because I don’t like my tone