Guitar brands and third party manufacturers. Who makes it , where and does it matter.

[Boudoir Guitar]

(1). Don't buy shit that won't hold its resale value.
(2). Try not to buy a guitar that I won't have a solid 2 week return period with and preferably have a good 30 minutes hands on with it before purchasing. If that's not possible, don't buy anything I will lose more than about 10-20% in reselling and that won't be THAT hard to resell.
(3). If I've managed to do 1 & 2, judge the guitar on its own merits and whether it is worth the cost to me. Here, I don't really care about where it was made. I don't care about stuff that I will only interact with if I have to take the whole thing apart (see: "Oh shit!! It's a swimming pool route! How cheap!!" Who cares). I care about how it plays, feels, sounds, and looks as an assembled, functioning guitar. Also, no matter how good a guitar plays/feels/sounds, keep its price/market-value-in-mind. Some Squire Classic Vibes are really great sounding and playing guitars. But...they're still Squire Classic Vibes.

I've had experiences, and seen friends do the same thing, where I was blinded by the "oh, this is Quality Brand Made in the Right Place" that I didn't take the time to REALLY look the instrument over and pay close attention to how it played/sounded, or a weird grain pattern that I would've known was going to really get on my nerves over the long term, etc.

 

[Eagle]

(1). Don't buy shit that won't hold its resale value.
(2). Try not to buy a guitar that I won't have a solid 2 week return period with and preferably have a good 30 minutes hands on with it before purchasing. If that's not possible, don't buy anything I will lose more than about 10-20% in reselling and that won't be THAT hard to resell.
(3). If I've managed to do 1 & 2, judge the guitar on its own merits and whether it is worth the cost to me. Here, I don't really care about where it was made. I don't care about stuff that I will only interact with if I have to take the whole thing apart (see: "Oh shit!! It's a swimming pool route! How cheap!!" Who cares). I care about how it plays, feels, sounds, and looks as an assembled, functioning guitar. Also, no matter how good a guitar plays/feels/sounds, keep its price/market-value-in-mind. Some Squire Classic Vibes are really great sounding and playing guitars. But...they're still Squire Classic Vibes.

I've had experiences, and seen friends do the same thing, where I was blinded by the "oh, this is Quality Brand Made in the Right Place" that I didn't take the time to REALLY look the instrument over and pay close attention to how it played/sounded, or a weird grain pattern that I would've known was going to really get on my nerves over the long term, etc.

Agreed. I just don't like stuff masquerading as something it is't with a big dose of mark up for the people who fall for the marketing.

 

[Boudoir Guitar]

Agreed. I just don't like stuff masquerading as something it is't with a big dose of mark up for the people who fall for the marketing.

Meh. As you note, at the end of the day, people make what you ask/pay them to make, so country-of-origin doesn't really tell you much re: mark up (see: Eastman).

Also, to me, mark up/profit margin doesn't REALLY come into play as long as I know I'm not buying something whose value is going to crater afterwards and I like the guitar as a guitar at the price being asked...what do I care about profit margin? If somebody is able to make a guitar that PLAYERS VALUE at $2k and that value has been shown to hold even in the used market, for whatever reason, if they've found a way to do that for less money than competitors regardless of where/how, what do I care? For the most part, we are not talking about $500 instruments here, but $2k+-ish, so buyers that are probably relatively savvy and have some idea how to judge a guitar's value to them as a player.

 

[SKU]

I have a Cort G250 that I bought just to have a disposable guitar when I moved to some other place once. It's true that I ran the racks and choose the best one there but it is truly one great guitar. Fretwork is perfect, fit and finish was also good although the materials were not the best, as you'd expect. The nut was cut PERFECTLY! No fret end problems! Light, very good sounding pickups. The only things I changed was the tremolo unit and the tuning keys because those were poor quality. Since then I've bought a couple more and they are all very nice instruments. problem is out of all the Cort guitars in the store this was the only truly good item...

 

[SKU]

Well, I can't speak for Harley Benton because I've never owned one, but I feel the same way about my Cort G300 PRO.

And I'm REALLY blown away by the NEW Cort X700 Triality that was just announced a few days ago for the 2024 line up !

View attachment 19200

Do not confuse this new model with the Duality I & II models. This is very different !

It goes "one" more!!

 

[Eagle]

Meh. As you note, at the end of the day, people make what you ask/pay them to make, so country-of-origin doesn't really tell you much re: mark up (see: Eastman).

Also, to me, mark up/profit margin doesn't REALLY come into play as long as I know I'm not buying something whose value is going to crater afterwards and I like the guitar as a guitar at the price being asked...what do I care about profit margin? If somebody is able to make a guitar that PLAYERS VALUE at $2k and that value has been shown to hold even in the used market, for whatever reason, if they've found a way to do that for less money than competitors regardless of where/how, what do I care? For the most part, we are not talking about $500 instruments here, but $2k+-ish, so buyers that are probably relatively savvy and have some idea how to judge a guitar's value to them as a player.

The industry only really operates like this in the low to mid price range up to about £2k . Above that brand and reputation together with name components matters a lot.

 

[Boudoir Guitar]

The industry only really operates like this in the low to mid price range up to about £2k . Above that brand and reputation together with name components matters a lot.

"up to 2k pounds" is a huge range.

In the low-to-mid range...is there obfuscation going on there? I mean, are folks really thinking their $300 Squire is made in the same place with the same materials and processes as a $900 MIM guitar? Even an unsophisticated buyer is going to know that it doesn't matter WHERE the $300-500 guitar was built, corners were cut compared to the 600+ instruments.

I assume the Duesenberg conversation is the inspiration for this. I'd say anything north of about $1200 USD you're dealing with semi-sophisticated buyers that can judge an instrument. There are some wealthy middle aged dudes buying their first guitar in that price point, sure, but...who cares about those folks?

MAYBE there is an area in the 600-1200 USD range where you're dealing with less sophisticated buyers and a possibility of obfuscation. I still don't see what the issue is really? Is there consensus on whether or not it's a "pro" that Gibson guitars are made where they're made?

 

[Eagle]

"up to 2k pounds" is a huge range.

In the low-to-mid range...is there obfuscation going on there? I mean, are folks really thinking their $300 Squire is made in the same place with the same materials and processes as a $900 MIM guitar? Even an unsophisticated buyer is going to know that it doesn't matter WHERE the $300-500 guitar was built, corners were cut compared to the 600+ instruments.

I assume the Duesenberg conversation is the inspiration for this. I'd say anything north of about $1200 USD you're dealing with semi-sophisticated buyers that can judge an instrument. There are some wealthy middle aged dudes buying their first guitar in that price point, sure, but...who cares about those folks?

MAYBE there is an area in the 600-1200 USD range where you're dealing with less sophisticated buyers and a possibility of obfuscation. I still don't see what the issue is really? Is there consensus on whether or not it's a "pro" that Gibson guitars are made where they're made?

I’m talking from an industry perspective so the majority of buyers across the board are not professionals or even halfway decent players. Most unfortunately can’t see past a brand name . You guys here are all seasoned pros by comparison.

 

[the-trooper]

"up to 2k pounds" is a huge range.

Yeah, illustrates the "has to be beyond perfection or complete shit, no between" attitude. Only a sith deals in absolutes.

 

[Boudoir Guitar]

I’m talking from an industry perspective so the majority of buyers across the board are not professionals or even halfway decent players. Most unfortunately can’t see past a brand name . You guys here are all seasoned pros by comparison.

I don’t get this. On the one hand you are slagging these people off as morons that wouldn’t know a decent instrument from a shitty one and are just buying because of the brand or because it looks cool…

…and then you seem concerned that there are guitar makers that focus on building a cool brand and cool looking instruments that those Neanderthals get excited about and want to spend their money on…. How is that problematic? They are 100% giving these customers what they want.

News flash: a large part of playing electric guitar is looking cool and being associated with things one thinks are cool.

 

[Eagle]

The brands making “cool” looking guitar shaped objects are largely only interested in the bottom line.

 

[spawnofthesith]

The main thing that gets an eye roll from me is a new brand or "small builder" thats just hocking another cort built guitar. I dont have a problem with cort or most of the established companies that contract them out but I hardly think the world needs all the small companies cropping up like gophers up pushing the same old stuff from the same old factory and trying to sell it to me as something new and innovative

 

[Boudoir Guitar]

The brands making “cool” looking guitar shaped objects are largely only interested in the bottom line.

I guess they got their MBA in Caldwell County Community College’s evening program:

“Hey guys, I’ve got an idea for making money. Guitars. Hear me out - I know their popularity has been on the decline for…decades. They are big, bulky, require sourcing natural materials from various countries. But seriously, all we have to do is make sure we build a cool brand in an industry known for its resistance to new players and anything that isn’t a Fender or Gibson.”

 

[Eagle]

I guess they got their MBA in Caldwell County Community College’s evening program:

“Hey guys, I’ve got an idea for making money. Guitars. Hear me out - I know their popularity has been on the decline for…decades. They are big, bulky, require sourcing natural materials from various countries. But seriously, all we have to do is make sure we build a cool brand in an industry known for its resistance to new players and anything that isn’t a Fender or Gibson.”

More guitars are made and sold now than ever. The world population has doubled since 1973 . Most buyers of beginner guitars never even learn to play .

 

[Boudoir Guitar]

More guitars are made and sold now than ever. The world population has doubled since 1973 . Most buyers of beginner guitars never even learn to play .

I thought we weren’t talking about beginner guitars? Phew. Conversation is about as easy to keep up with as an Orvillian one…

 

[SKU]

There is only one Guitar! The universal notion that is materialised in objects created by luthiers which should be in themselves art ... . Guitars are by definition objects that create art and determine - in a way - the notion of Guitar. When art is separated from the materialised guitar then the object itself no longer represents that notion and it becomes like any other object. That's what happened when guitars became commodities. Most guitar products are now like McDonalds ... just objects to be sold separated from real art and real artists. When you have 30 companies outsourcing "luthier" work then you get just objects sold by various people made by who knows who without any other reason other than money. Those things have no relation to the notion of Guitar. ... Sort of like super market tomatoes versus home grown tomatoes grown out of old family seeds...

 

[SKU]

This also touches on the fact that most people who own guitars these days have no higher purposes than press frets and make sounds ... And it also explains why companies get in this business. There are few artists who desire objects of art to make art - very few people who offer such things - and a lot of regular folks that want objects to make noise - tons of companies capitalising on this - and that is a pretty big distinction. It also explains why some artists wait long times for very special "boutique" items and get laughed at by regular people who are very happy with whatever.

 

[Eagle]

I’m actually surprised you think the stuff coming out of Mexican Taylor and Martin factories is good. That’s not what I see come through. LOTS of crap coming from those companies’ MIM factories.

Good for the price. But if you want a great sounding acoustic you need to be lucky and find something from the wood lottery or have a serious budget. These MIM instruments are sold gigable and not expensive. The bolt on construction is very practical..

 

[Eagle]

I thought we weren’t talking about beginner guitars? Phew. Conversation is about as easy to keep up with as an Orvillian one…

I’m taking about the whole industry.

 

[Eagle]

So who do you think this is for and why?