Fractal ICONS Plugin

[Cactusprick]

Meh, pay for it and play like a king owning it.

Would think only a very tiny number of ppl bothering to look for cracks.

Most musicians appreciate the work and play legit.

But yeah such low lives stealing from others.

 

[KFF]

It makes you (ME anyway) wonder about iLok. How much do they charge companies? I would opine too much... if all you get out of it is a week. FFS!

I mean... if getting cracked is inevitable... maybe you're better off without? I do have some (recent even) plugins that have ZERO protection. You create an account. Purchase... and you're given access to the download(s) from your account section. I'm sure a book (or ten) could be written on how the copy-protection/crack world pans out. Dogs certainly will be dogs, though.

One caveat: I LOVE iLok. As close to a Day 1 adopter as you can get. I get bummed out when iLok isn't used. Just so easy to manage. Have never had one fail. Have never lost one.

With over 25+ years of owning studios, I think my favourite tools are iLoks... and Blue Cat Patchwork. (<-- which ironically is serial number... no iLok)

 

[MirrorProfiles]

Meh, pay for it and play like a king owning it.

Would think only a very tiny number of ppl bothering to look for cracks.

Most musicians appreciate the work and play legit.

But yeah such low lives stealing from others.

Totally agree here. You’d hope anyone using a cracked version gets fed up of using an outdated version rather than getting all the latest updates and stability. Plus you can avoid downloading viruses and spyware and whatever other shit these idiots are putting on their computer.

I’m also not sure how many of the people who are used to stealing and not paying anything for their software would have paid for the software anyway. It’s no excuse at all, but they simply wouldn’t have bought the product at any price. Some people have an entitlement where they think they need to have everything and also feel they don’t need to pay. They are absolutely not the people who were going to pay for the software or be proper customers.

It makes you (ME anyway) wonder about iLok. How much do they charge companies? I would opine too much... if all you get out of it is a week. FFS!

I mean... if getting cracked is inevitable... maybe you're better off without? I do have some (recent even) plugins that have ZERO protection. You create an account. Purchase... and you're given access to the download(s) from your account section. I'm sure a book (or ten) could be written on how the copy-protection/crack world pans out. Dogs certainly will be dogs, though.

One caveat: I LOVE iLok. As close to a Day 1 adopter as you can get. I get bummed out when iLok isn't used. Just so easy to manage. Have never had one fail. Have never lost one.

With over 25+ years of owning studios, I think my favourite tools are iLoks... and Blue Cat Patchwork. (<-- which ironically is serial number... no iLok)

Big iLok fan too (I’d happily pay more for the convenience of using ilok over using something proprietary). AFAIK, iLok itself hasn’t been cracked, but there are certain vulnerabilities of how companies implement it. Hopefully that can get patched up (I’m pretty sure many iLok based products haven’t been cracked). I don’t think UAD has ever been cracked (for instance).

I’ve been the target of stolen products, despite trying to price things as affordably as I can. In my mind, no one needs any of this stuff so desperately that it requires stealing from those who pour their life and soul into it (especially when it’s over a somewhat negligible non-life changing price).

If you can’t afford it, you don’t need it that badly. There are so many free options out there that are just fine. Some people steal so much that doing so loses all meaning/perspective

 

[[Nathan]]

I don’t think ilok has been fully hacked because UAD plugins and many others haven’t been cracked yet.

Hopefully ilok are aware of the sorts of things that might make it crackable / non crackable and fractal can implement those things to shore up the security

And yeah things will inevitably get cracked but this one felt different. I hope it doesn’t slow down long term plans for fractal cause the direction is a good one, goddamn jawas

 

[volkan]

@SeeD what's 9 + 10?

No.

 

[yek]

I was out this evening. Got back to a message from him... "its k'd." No further details.

You sure it wasn't your dealer?

 

[kvik]

In my mind, no one needs any of this stuff so desperately that it requires stealing from those who pour their life and soul into it (especially when it’s over a somewhat negligible non-life changing price). If you can’t afford it, you don’t need it that badly. There are so many free options out there that are just fine.

Not trying to excuse the practice in general but "somewhat negligible non-life changing price" very much depends on your living circumstances. In most of our sorry world the price of software like this amounts to a full monthly wage (or several) and it should appear obvious why piracy is a default choice for poor people.

Steam anti-piracy model works by recognizing this reality and scaling down the price considerably for less fortunate countries. From what I can tell it works very well for turning certain pirates into paying customers. Steam also provides other added values which award honest customers rather than punish them preemptively for the potential deeds of others.

 

[[Nathan]]

I posted in their forum. Saw Cliff and Matt cycling through the list. I'm sure they're aware.

Man I gotta say posting on a companies own forum that their stuff got hacked, thats some balls right there haha.
I think a PM or email would have been more discrete. They likely know about it and having public chatter / conversation starters wouldn't be great.

We can all name some companies that would insta ban you for doing that. I know your hearts probably in the right place but the optics aren't good imo.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

Not trying to excuse the practice in general but "somewhat negligible non-life changing price" very much depends on your living circumstances. In most of our sorry world the price of software like this amounts to a full monthly wage (or several) and it should appear obvious why piracy is a default choice for poor people.

I’m talking more about people stealing IR packs when I have stuff for sale for $1-5 (and I don’t think any are more than $15). No one needs them THAT badly, even if they are proportionally more expensive in different regions around the world.

For $300 software, even though it’s a lot more expensive the same is true. Why would anyone need it THAT badly where they feel stealing is justified? It’s absurd to draw that connection IMO.

Anyway, I agree with Nathan that discussing it publicly probably just makes things worse and I’d be happy for mods to remove this discussion to protect Fractal

 

[Orvillain]

How much do they charge companies?

It is extremely expensive. Their NDA's prevent developers from discussing it.

I have an iLok. I am anti iLok. None of my software in the future will use it.

 

[laxu]

Totally agree here. You’d hope anyone using a cracked version gets fed up of using an outdated version rather than getting all the latest updates and stability. Plus you can avoid downloading viruses and spyware and whatever other shit these idiots are putting on their computer.

I’m also not sure how many of the people who are used to stealing and not paying anything for their software would have paid for the software anyway. It’s no excuse at all, but they simply wouldn’t have bought the product at any price. Some people have an entitlement where they think they need to have everything and also feel they don’t need to pay. They are absolutely not the people who were going to pay for the software or be proper customers.

Some people cracking the software can be quite dilligent in keeping up with versions, if the same process works for every subsequent ones. But this seems to mainly happen for very popular software.

I totally agree that the people who would pirate the software would NOT be the group that would pay for it in the first place. Plus with the availability of trial versions you can just try before buying so there's no "I wonder what it sounds like" aspect to it either.

 

[kvik]

For $300 software, even though it’s a lot more expensive the same is true. Why would anyone need it THAT badly where they feel stealing is justified? It’s absurd to draw that connection IMO.

Of course it depends on the individual case and what the software is and is used for. It's very hard to continue arguing my case for a niche audio processing plugin. Still wanted to argue it because I find discussions about piracy to be extremely non-nuanced and boring.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

There’s no excuse for it - it makes good products less viable and directly impacts the hardest working, most passionate people creating products we love. The ones who pay are the people making the products, and the users who actually support these companies. The justifications don’t add up because no one needs this stuff, and all it does is make things less viable going forward.

The flip side is these versions are often laced with spyware and viruses and hopefully become unstable enough that it’s just easier to do things properly.

I shudder i think what I’ve spent on plugins in my lifetime. It’s certainly a sizeable amount relative to anyone’s currency. I similarly don’t steal other items just because they’re too expensive.

What’s also crazy is I’ve had people directly tell me they’ve stolen or shared my products to me and given some bullshit justification thinking I’d be cool with it. It just shows how out of touch these people are.

 

[FractalAudio]

There is absolutely no argument to be made for stealing ANYTHING. Individual use case is BS. Honesty and integrity are the corner stones of a properly functioning society. No amount of philosophical hand-waving justifies theft.

There are many thousands of man-hours that went into this project. Not just the software but all the intangible stuff that people don't see. We had to switch to a different eCommerce platform (and pay higher fees), transfer all the data to the new platform, etc., etc.

People's very livelihoods are threatened by acts like this. You can be as cavalier as you want about it but anyone who uses cracked software is a thief, plain and simple.

I'm sure there are some people at TOP that find some sort of twisted pleasure in this (e.g., Popstar aka Yvan Apothekar, aka Yvan Bloomberg, aka Shattered Square, aka Stainless Steel Frets, aka Elon Mask, aka etc., etc. along with other camp survivors).

For years we were reticent to enter the software market for just this reason and we heard constant complaints about that. "Wah, wah, I want an Axe-Fx plugin and I'll hold my breath and stomp my feet until I get one". Can you imagine the damage to the company if we had released every amp and effect as a plug-in. It would be an existential crisis.

In the end this just reduces the options to the consumer. Companies will be averse to software products knowing that their investment may never be recouped.

 

[Orvillain]

Not trying to excuse the practice in general but "somewhat negligible non-life changing price" very much depends on your living circumstances. In most of our sorry world the price of software like this amounts to a full monthly wage (or several) and it should appear obvious why piracy is a default choice for poor people.

Steam anti-piracy model works by recognizing this reality and scaling down the price considerably for less fortunate countries. From what I can tell it works very well for turning certain pirates into paying customers. Steam also provides other added values which award honest customers rather than punish them preemptively for the potential deeds of others.

Copium bullshit.

 

[Orvillain]

For years we were reticent to enter the software market for just this reason and we heard constant complaints about that. "Wah, wah, I want an Axe-Fx plugin and I'll hold my breath and stomp my feet until I get one". Can you imagine the damage to the company if we had released every amp and effect as a plug-in. It would be an existential crisis.

In the end this just reduces the options to the consumer. Companies will be averse to software products knowing that their investment may never be recouped.

It is a seriously big problem, and I've seen it from all sides; the laissez faire approach where you go "it's just the cost of business" but it can easily result in a reduction of 30% or more revenue per year. I've also seen it from the super draconian approach where the software is forced to perform an extreme phone-home-and-ensure-I'm-not-stolen type of deal every x number of days, and it seriously pisses people off and all but kills brands.

And there's no winning the game. Because ultimately, a massive proportion of the people who are pro piracy, are not doing it for monetary reasons. They're doing it for philosophical and political reasons; they actively hate the capitalist system. They hate the fact that Cliff or anyone else can build a thing, and make a living from it. They actively want to destroy our way of life, and they use weasel words to justify it.

Sorry to get a little political, but this is really important stuff, and it goes far beyond my dead dreams of having an Axe III directly there in my DAW.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

it should appear obvious why piracy is a default choice for poor people.

Absolutely wild take.

Stealing from people whose livelihood depends on it. It’s stealing from people who have families, kids, bills, and all the usual bullshit that life throws at them because they feel they are entitled to something they see no reason to pay for. It’s not stealing essential medicine or food. It’s directly affecting similarly minded people who love music and gear and making their life worse.

Please rethink about this stance and consider the implications of what stealing does and who it really benefits. There are websites hosting this stuff that rake in fortunes on the back of other people’s hard work, skill and talent.

I also find it a bit offensive to imply that poor people steal. Thieves steal. Having money in your bank account or not has no bearing on whether you’re a thief or not. And anyone who is in a position to be online stealing amp sims on a whim (and other plugins) has things going well enough that they needn’t steal. There are many people on this planet for more worse off.

 

[DrewJD82]

In my mind, no one needs any of this stuff so desperately that it requires stealing from those who pour their life and soul into it (especially when it’s over a somewhat negligible non-life changing price).

This, this, this and more this.

There are times I’m more than willing to lend forgiveness or empathy to a situation where food or clothing is stolen because there’s a legitimate need for it, but plugins are no where fricken’ near that scenario.

 

[Mongillo19]

Wah, wah, I want an Axe-Fx plugin and I'll hold my breath and stomp my feet until I get one".

I know this sucks but I wouldn't be bagging on your consumer base because they wanted a product from you all.

At the end of the day you all made the final decision to release this product.

Shitty situation for sure but let's go after and blame those who stole this product, not those who wanted it?

 

[Orvillain]

The same people defending piracy will get properly uppity and suddenly become the most evil venture capitalist types on the planet, when it is suggested they get paid in "exposure" for their music and live performances.