Not that I expected anything less from fractal but I was curious how often updates would be for the VP4. Obviously they consider it part of the FAS family but it's awesome to see it already being improved.
Not that I expected anything less from fractal but I was curious how often updates would be for the VP4. Obviously they consider it part of the FAS family but it's awesome to see it already being improved.
I assume we will see some solid updates early on for this new product, but then probably nothing but bug fixes as Fractal focuses on their next gen stuff.
4 MIDI messages per scene is enough to control most things you'd want to switch at once.
Ability to go back/forth between fx blocks when editing a block. Similar to how you can spam Edit/dbl click Edit for forward/backwards on the FM3 etc.
Now it seems that you have to scroll to a block, Enter it, edit what you want, Exit, scroll to another block etc. Which is the same as the Fractal grid UI, just without the grid and with less spots to click through.
Firstly, thank you for your patience; we know it’s been a while, but the wait is nearly over as the first UK shipment of the hotly anticipated VP4 should arrive at G66 UK around the end of next week, so we should be able to start serving the waitlist and begin shipping in about 10 days.
Touch and go for me because I have a work jolly to attend in Cape Town in South Africa in early December, but I'm not giving up my chance of some "summer in winter" for an FX pedal...
I can do a complete pros/cons list for the VP4 vs H90 if anyone's interested, but Dave makes it sound like the H90 is an extremely complex device to use, which I don't think is really the case. There is a learning curve obviously, but it's not that hard once you get the hang of it and go over the quick start guide.
Pete Thorn doesn't know how to use it? are you fucking kidding me??
They were talking about using the hardware unit itself, they said it isn’t as bad on the app. Lots of people don’t like to be reliant on an app for editing a pedal though, which is fair.
I’ve never heard anyone saying anything good about the on-device editing on the H90. Can’t speak to it myself.
IMO a really well designed product should not require an app for most users to do most things. I do get that some very specific pedals (like Tonex or Nanocortex) may rely on apps more than others. But good design should allow you to easily set up the device without tons of button presses and menus and hooking up to a computer. Seems like Fractal made some good progress here with the VP4.
IMO a really well designed product should not require an app for most users to do most things. I do get that some very specific pedals (like Tonex or Nanocortex) may rely on apps more than others. But good design should allow you to easily set up the device without tons of button presses and menus and hooking up to a computer. Seems like Fractal made some good progress here with the VP4.
It's all about what benefit you get by pushing for more external app functionality.
For example there's not a whole lot of reason to edit my Source Audio Collider with the SA Neuro App for anything but preset management, because almost every function you'd regularly use is available with the knobs on the pedal.
By comparison my SA Nemesis benefits a lot more from the editor because there's a lot of extra parameters to play with. If the pedal had them, it would be huge, or have multiple layers of parameters, probably ending up with a user experience that overwhelms the intended buyer - someone who just wants a versatile, great sounding delay.
The VP4 falls somewhere in between. I like that Fractal has streamlined the block parameters, and built an advanced mode when you want to mess with the fine details. I hope that comes to the other units as well.
The flipside is that the VP4 is still a dated user interface based on all the conceps from the current gen units. I think they could have done better. The Boss style scroll knob is not great. Fractal missed what made that "double-click Edit to go back a block" such a game changer for editing the FM3/FM9/Axe-Fx 3 blocks. The old "Edit -> adjust params -> Exit -> navigate to previous block -> Edit -> adjust params -> Exit" cycle sucked balls, and the VP4 is just a 4 block, horizontal only navigation version of exactly that thing.
Leaving out the clickable encoders was another mistake, those can't cost that much more than the non-clickable ones. Those switches could have been used for many things. They could select the block above the knob, they could work as quick ways to choose between blocks while editing them and more. Could have made that UI really fly IMO. But now Fractal has painted themselves into a bit of a UI design corner where it's hard to improve usability by much.
Combined with the high price in EU, it's a nope from me as much as I love Fractal's fx quality. I'll wait for next gen.
I can do a complete pros/cons list for the VP4 vs H90 if anyone's interested, but Dave makes it sound like the H90 is an extremely complex device to use, which I don't think is really the case. There is a learning curve obviously, but it's not that hard once you get the hang of it and go over the quick start guide.
Pete Thorn doesn't know how to use it? are you fucking kidding me??
Yeah I know, I mentioned it in my following post. Still nonsense. Anyone can learn how to use it in a day or two.
I do agree that the H90's on-device editing isn't the most intuitive, you need to learn how it works; but it isn't hard, just annoying. Ironically, it feels like an old rack in a way...
Eventide's UI designs were never great, imo. Programming the H8000 was a nightmare, the H90 is a joke in comparison.
Having said that, I must add that I also disagree with the "every device should be super simple to use, I never read the manual, and if I don't get it in the first 30 min then it's a bad design and an overly complex unit" approach.
You want something simple? get a Boss SD1, three knobs and the truth.
Modern digital devices that offer a lot of options and functionality usually have some kind of a learning curve, especially when you want to get the most out of them.
I find that there's a nice balance in the VP4 between ease of use, intuitive interface and versatility (i.e complexity when you need it).
The old "Edit -> adjust params -> Exit -> navigate to previous block -> Edit -> adjust params -> Exit" cycle sucked balls, and the VP4 is just a 4 block, horizontal only navigation version of exactly that thing.
Yeah I know, I mentioned it in my following post. Still nonsense. Anyone can learn how to use it in a day or two.
I do agree that the H90's on-device editing isn't the most intuitive, you need to learn how it works; but it isn't hard, just annoying. Ironically, it feels like an old rack in a way...
Eventide's UI designs were never great, imo. Programming the H8000 was a nightmare, the H90 is a joke in comparison.
Having said that, I must add that I also disagree with the "every device should be super simple to use, I never read the manual, and if I don't get it in the first 30 min then it's a bad design and an overly complex unit" approach.
You want something simple? get a Boss SD1, three knobs and the truth.
Modern digital devices that offer a lot of options and functionality usually have some kind of a learning curve, especially when you want to get the most out of them.
I find that there's a nice balance in the VP4 between ease of use, intuitive interface and versatility (i.e complexity when you need it).
Originally, I wanted to write that I'm really sick of the instant gratification mentality of this day and age. If people don't get what they want instantly they lose their minds and shout it out to the entire universe. Over the years I've seen so many posts that look like: "got my FM3 yesterday, I hate it! I payed so much and I can't get a decent tone out of it"......well guess what you entitled douchebag, you deserve that shitty tone!
But then, after a warm cup of tea, I realized that it might just be me getting old and cranky, and people's opinions and perceptions are irrelevant to me or the choices I make.
To quote Richard Factor (the founder of Eventide): "I think my main goal as I get older is just not to be cranky".
I’ve used a lot of gear that is difficult to program and use, the guilty will remain nameless so that this thread doesn’t turn into a discussion of why those units were or were not too difficult to use too.
I like deep control of parameters. The units that provide it often don’t have great UI, some of them are really, really awful. I deal with that in places to get the control I want. You won’t find me defending these units though, they’re too damn hard to use. Sure I can use them, learn them, teach them to others, etc but it just shouldn’t be that hard. For what they cost, make the UI not suck. There’s a lot of value in an intuitive UI that I can figure out on my own pretty easily and I don’t need to practice routinely to be able to keep using it proficiently. Some units if I leave them alone for a year and then need to do something with it’s like I’m starting all over on trying to figure them out again.
I don’t think we’re asking too much to say that a $500+ digital pedal should have a well designed UI. If it doesn’t, some of us will make it work anyway. But I think it’s fair game to bitch about it…
If it’s not hard wired the no not even then .
The thing for me that matters most is what happens to the dry signal. If it changes I can only use it parallel on kill dry.
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I'm using a Parallizer and setting all VP4 blocks to Kill Dry & Parallel and running everything in POST. Analog pedals only out front. No phase issues that I've detected.
Bypass is true analog through, you can hear the relay switching when activated (unless my mind is playing tricks on me).
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