Fender FR-10/FR-12 noise reduction mod

[lolainnb]

Genuinely happy to hear this worked for you, man Enjoy your well deserved hiss-less amp!

So what’s the final verdict? Replacing 3 opamps is needed or just the last 2?

 

[Lysander]

So what’s the final verdict? Replacing 3 opamps is needed or just the last 2?

People report that replacing just the last two is enough - makes sense, as most of the gain apparently happens on those. The way the preamp is designed makes noise cumulative, so fixing 66% will have significantly more impact than the final 33%.

Having said that: if you're opening your amp up, go ahead and replace all three for optimum performance.

 

[deadpool_25]

People report that replacing just the last two is enough - makes sense, as most of the gain apparently happens on those. The way the preamp is designed makes noise cumulative, so fixing 66% will have significantly more impact than the final 33%.

Having said that: if you're opening your amp up, go ahead and replace all three for optimum performance.

Yeah but Fender only replaced two so that's obviously optimal.

 

[Lysander]

Yeah but Fender only replaced two so that's obviously optimal.

Then again, they replaced the differential input opamp as well, and i'm unable to figure out why...

 

[deadpool_25]

Then again, they replaced the differential input opamp as well, and i'm unable to figure out why...

Probably got lost in translation. There had to be like 10 levels of "hey that's a good idea" between the person who was lurking on your thread to the production line.

 

[Mike Oliphant]

I just need to express my utmost gratitude to you @Lysander. You just made my Amp that much better. (I just made an account to personally acknowledge your contribution to the community)

This is the best part of what forums like this are about. Props to @Lysander for the solution, and props to you for having the courage to give it a try and reporting back.

 

[fazer]

Then again, they replaced the differential input opamp as well, and i'm unable to figure out why...

So has Fender now corrected this issue so that future users who buy new FR-10/12’s won’t experience the hiss at all?

 

[dronerstone]

So has Fender now corrected this issue so that future users who buy new FR-10/12’s won’t experience the hiss at all?

Seems like they did, although if you order one right now, you might as well receive old stock that still has the hiss problem.

So yeah, them not going "public" about it is a dumb move, imho.

And it's not like it'd need a press conference...

 

[fazer]

Seems like they did, although if you order one right now, you might as well receive old stock that still has the hiss problem.

So yeah, them not going "public" about it is a dumb move, imho.

And it's not like it'd need a press conference...

I'm glad Fender decided to fix this but it's a shame for people who already have the noisy variants. I guess there will be no option given to have those fixed for free.

 

[Lysander]

I'm glad Fender decided to fix this but it's a shame for people who already have the noisy variants. I guess there will be no option given to have those fixed for free.

Yeah, there's a reason why they're silently rolling out a "fixed" preamp revision. Everyone who bought the original would have a warranty claim otherwise.

As @dronerstone mentioned, the main issue with Fender playing radio silence about this is that, unless you crack it open, there's no way to tell what you're getting if you buy a new FR-10/12 today

 

[jay mitchell]

Yeah, there's a reason why they're silently rolling out a "fixed" preamp revision.

Literally every manufacturer of electronic gear in the world prominently publishes a disclaimer to the effect that they "reserve the right" to develop the product further and that "specifications may change without notice."

Everyone who bought the original would have a warranty claim otherwise.

Uhh, no. See above. There has been no reporting to the effect that the noise interferes with the intended use of the product. Many users have specifically stated that it does not concern them.

Make no mistake: I'm not defending Fender, whose record making this sort of product is unremarkable at best, nor the product itself, which I consider little more than a transparent attempt to leverage the brand name into a market the company has never successfully served. I am simply pointing out the realities of manufacturing and marketing electronic gear.

Caveat emptor.

 

[Lysander]

Literally every manufacturer of electronic gear in the world prominently publishes a disclaimer to the effect that they "reserve the right" to develop the product further and that "specifications may change without notice."

That's quite likely true in the US, but definitely not in other jurisdictions such as the EU. In Australia, for example, you could be be entitled for a replacement/repair just because of the amp "failing to be of acceptable quality, and the failure not amounting to a major failure"... as defined by the consumer.

Having said that, i just checked, and couldn't find a similar disclaimer in my FR-12s warranty It is however worded to make "defective components" to mean whatever they want it to be, but i don't know how this all plays when they're effectively selling two different revisions under the same SKU.

 

[jay mitchell]

In Australia, for example, you could be be entitled for a replacement/repair just because of the amp "failing to be of acceptable quality, and the failure not amounting to a major failure"... as defined by the consumer.

Makes it seem like a cheap, noisy amp that just isn't worth the bother for end users to improvise a fix for, doesn't it? Just sayin'....

 

[fazer]

That's quite likely true in the US, but definitely not in other jurisdictions such as the EU. In Australia, for example, you could be be entitled for a replacement/repair just because of the amp "failing to be of acceptable quality, and the failure not amounting to a major failure"... as defined by the consumer.

Having said that, i just checked, and couldn't find a similar disclaimer in my FR-12s warranty It is however worded to make "defective components" to mean whatever they want it to be, but i don't know how this all plays when they're effectively selling two different revisions under the same SKU.

In Britain and Europe I think we could make a successful case that the hiss interfered with the quality we expected and that other similar units do not make such noise, but it would likely be a stressful and time consuming process that I suspect many would not wish to put themselves through.

 

[fazer]

Literally every manufacturer of electronic gear in the world prominently publishes a disclaimer to the effect that they "reserve the right" to develop the product further and that "specifications may change without notice."

Uhh, no. See above. There has been no reporting to the effect that the noise interferes with the intended use of the product. Many users have specifically stated that it does not concern them.

Make no mistake: I'm not defending Fender, whose record making this sort of product is unremarkable at best, nor the product itself, which I consider little more than a transparent attempt to leverage the brand name into a market the company has never successfully served. I am simply pointing out the realities of manufacturing and marketing electronic gear.

Caveat emptor.

Out of interest do you have any thoughts about the Tone Master Pro you would be willing to share here? Have you had reason to look at it closely, at all?

 

[jay mitchell]

Out of interest do you have any thoughts about the Tone Master Pro you would be willing to share here?

No. Last time I checked, this was a thread about the noise in FR-12 and FR-10 cabs.

 

[jay mitchell]

In Britain and Europe I think we could make a successful case that the hiss interfered with the quality we expected and that other similar units do not make such noise,

Are you positive about the bold part? I've done noise measurements on a number of full range powered speakers. Some of them are embarrassingly noisy.

but it would likely be a stressful and time consuming process that I suspect many would not wish to put themselves through.

Or, alternatively, one in which they do not prevail....

 

[fazer]

No. Last time I checked, this was a thread about the noise in FR-12 and FR-10 cabs.

Fair enough, Thanks.

 

[fazer]

Are you positive about the bold part? I've done noise measurements on a number of full range powered speakers. Some of them are embarrassingly noisy.

Or, alternatively, one in which they do not prevail....

I said ‘I think’ so I’m not sure, no, but consumer protection is strong in Britain and Europe so I do think there’s a good chance of success, particularly if someone with technical expertise would support the claim. (I pursued something similar once before, successfully.)

Misread the post: If other units priced similarly were equally noisy that would weaken the claim considerably, but I’ve been led to believe mostly via these forums that the hiss is much worse on these units.

 

[jay mitchell]

I said ‘I think’ so I’m not sure, no, but consumer protection is strong in Britain and Europe so I do think there’s a good chance of success, particularly if someone with technical expertise would support the claim.

I am rumored to be "someone with technical expertise." FYI, some of the noisier speakers I've tested are popular in Europe and Britain. Honestly, you've got to stretch the concept of "consumer protection" well beyond the breaking point to claim that the broadband noise ('hiss") that is present to some degree in literally every piece of audio electronics ever made is causing harm to a consumer.