Digital modeling history

[laxu]

Digital Igloo's Ask Me Anything thread had some interesting side paths to the history of digital modeling, so why not have a dedicated thread for it.

This is the place where you can argue who did it first, who did it better during X time period and reminisce about all the old digital gear you had back in the day.

 

[laxu]

I was always fond of the Yamaha DG stuff. I felt they were unsurpassed for several years and are still some of the most user friendly digital modelers ever made. The motorized pots on the DG preamp and amps were a really cool feature.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Just 100% digital?

 

[Sascha Franck]

Something not to miss in this history: Boss GT-5

Pretty much *the* role model for any floorboard modeler. I should one day get mine out for a photo session, but I actually don't exactly know in which of the countless old stuff boxes in the basement it lives. Still absolutely intact.
Used it for the first gigs where DI/silent was a must (theatre stuff), in favour of the POD, which I also bought later on (I think the GT was released 2-3 years earlier, too lazy too look it all up), simply because the GT was much more dynamic and flexible. I only later learned that it's got an analog drive section, quite amazing.
I also used it along with a Marshall 6100 - gotta say that even these days that'd be a pretty potent rig (had some noise issues with 4CM at first but got them solved using one of the cables without ground connection).

I should actually really take the thing out and see whether it would still prodce some decent sounds with an up to date cab sim.

Had a built in PSU, which was great. Individual switches for each FX block was also really nice, that way you could easily modify patches. Just scrolling through everything with the arrow keys was pretty tiresome, there's been no multiple encoders for individual parameters.
Fwiw, the thing does both gapless switching and delay/verb spillover.

Apart from a signal flow display and more encoders, this is still pretty much exactly how each and every floor modeler works.

Here's a picture (unfortunately not mine, but I will take one, should I find it - mine looks a lot more rock'n'roll):

 

[Sascha Franck]

Btw, interestingly enough, the GT-3 came out some years later. Back then, the lower model number apparently indicated less features and switches, not its age. That started with the GT-6. They also left out a GT-4. Later on, they left out the odd numbers, so there's a GT-8 and GT-10 but no GT-7 and GT-9.

 

[mbenigni]

Man, these pics of Yamaha and Boss products from the early '00s sure do bring me back. I had a DG-80 briefly before replacing it with a Flextone (can't actually remember why?) I ran a GT-3 directly into a Mackie SRM450 for a while - and tried to pretend amp/cab sims were actually functional at that time, which they weren't LOL. Then I picked up a POD 2.0, which sounded worlds better IMO, and course-corrected to Line 6 for several years.

 

[laxu]

Something not to miss in this history: Boss GT-5

Pretty much *the* role model for any floorboard modeler. I should one day get mine out for a photo session, but I actually don't exactly know in which of the countless old stuff boxes in the basement it lives. Still absolutely intact.
Used it for the first gigs where DI/silent was a must (theatre stuff), in favour of the POD, which I also bought later on (I think the GT was released 2-3 years earlier, too lazy too look it all up), simply because the GT was much more dynamic and flexible. I only later learned that it's got an analog drive section, quite amazing.
I also used it along with a Marshall 6100 - gotta say that even these days that'd be a pretty potent rig (had some noise issues with 4CM at first but got them solved using one of the cables without ground connection).

I should actually really take the thing out and see whether it would still prodce some decent sounds with an up to date cab sim.

Had a built in PSU, which was great. Individual switches for each FX block was also really nice, that way you could easily modify patches. Just scrolling through everything with the arrow keys was pretty tiresome, there's been no multiple encoders for individual parameters.
Fwiw, the thing does both gapless switching and delay/verb spillover.

Apart from a signal flow display and more encoders, this is still pretty much exactly how each and every floor modeler works.

Here's a picture (unfortunately not mine, but I will take one, should I find it - mine looks a lot more rock'n'roll):

View attachment 5922

I had the Boss GT-6, hated it and quickly sold it. It sounded much worse than the Yamaha DG80 combo I had (running into that same amp's fx return), it was so much more awkward to work with too even if on paper it did a lot more.

I've always hated the "1-2 row LCD display and value wheel" design, I think it's generally a terrible way to operate a menu-driven system but I guess that was what was cheap to do with digital displays back in the day. I would have probably sent my first gen Axe-Fx Standard back quickly if it wasn't for how good Axe-Edit was even back then.

PS. Looking at that pic, where has the acoustic guitar sim gone on all modelers? Did nobody use it or did nobody want to develop a better version of it?

 

[Baba]

Pffft, you guys and your BOSS and Yamaha. I had the OG modeler:

In all seriousness, was there anything before the Line 6 AXSYS/AX2-212? I bought one, so I guess I did jump on (formal) modeling pretty early.

It's funny, I went from pedals into SS amps, to a rack rig, and then to modeling. It wasn't until about 20 years into my playing, that I bought a tube amp.

 

[mbenigni]

I had the Boss GT-6, hated it and quickly sold it. It sounded much worse than the Yamaha DG80 combo I had (running into that same amp's fx return), it was so much more awkward to work with too even if on paper it did a lot more.

I've always hated the "1-2 row LCD display and value wheel" design, I think it's generally a terrible way to operate a menu-driven system but I guess that was what was cheap to do with digital displays back in the day. I would have probably sent my first gen Axe-Fx Standard back quickly if it wasn't for how good Axe-Edit was even back then.

PS. Looking at that pic, where has the acoustic guitar sim gone on all modelers? Did nobody use it or did nobody want to develop a better version of it?

I don't think I've ever seen a GT-6 before - at least not in that color?

Don't even get me started on Roland's fetish for oversized, ineffective wheels. GR-55 "Quick Edit" was the worst, in terms of real estate to functionality ratio.

As for acoustic sims, they're still alive and well in a lot of modelers. Roland does a poly "COSM" version in the GP-10, etc.; Variax has onboard models; Helix and others have electric to acoustic DSP blocks...

 

[NKP]

Johnson amps ?

Johnson Millennium

Dave Lockwood tests this hi-tech guitar system which seeks to replicate the sound of many of the most coveted vintage and modern amplifiers on the market, with full digital multi-effects thrown in, and all in a convenient, portable, combo format.

www.soundonsound.com

 

[TubeStack]

Pffft, you guys and your BOSS and Yamaha. I had the OG modeler:

Man, I had so much fun with my Rockman Soloist and headphones, as a teenager. Still have it somewhere, but it won't turn on.

 

[Sascha Franck]

I had the Boss GT-6, hated it and quickly sold it. It sounded much worse than the Yamaha DG80 combo I had (running into that same amp's fx return), it was so much more awkward to work with too even if on paper it did a lot more.

All GTs between the 5 and 10 sounded absolutely horrible. I liked the 6 for the amount of knobs (as you might've guessed already) but couldn't buy it because it just sounded horrible, especially in 4CM.
Apparently the ADDA converters had been an issue with Boss units - because, while the 10 finally was quite an improvement in sound when used on its own, it sucked the life out of every amp used via 4CM (it's been really horrible - and I'm defenitely no cork sniffer), so I ended up using just the powe amps of my Laney LC50 combo as a small setup and an incredibly convoluted mess of a GT-10, G-Force, a loop switcher, some more rack stuff, some pedals in a rack caddy, etc. with a Boogie MKIV.

The GTs only got back on track with the GT-100, with that one, 4CM sounded great but I still didn't end up buying it (even if I could after a musical production where it was provided by the company) because it annoyed the f*** out of me that they scrapped the individual FX block switches. Because of that, the GT-100 was much harder to navigate and edit than the GT-10, which I found to be inacceptable.

I've always hated the "1-2 row LCD display and value wheel" design, I think it's generally a terrible way to operate a menu-driven system but I guess that was what was cheap to do with digital displays back in the day.

I'd say it was the only way back then. Anything else was too expensive. Even with the GT-100, Boss didn't raise the display size compared to the GT-10 but added a second one instead. And boy, have those been bad! I'd almost take a bet they were some leftover of an unsuccessful keyboard production run or just B-stock from their display supplier.

PS. Looking at that pic, where has the acoustic guitar sim gone on all modelers? Did nobody use it or did nobody want to develop a better version of it?

Tried to use them a few times. Ended up using any other sound or bringing my acoustic. Never even remotely bonded with them.

What I did however like with the GT-10 was it's octaver. Even if it was likely meant to be a sort of clone of their pedals, it actually worked WAY better. Vastly better tracking and way less glitches, used it as a faux bass on some jobs where I was using the looper (which wasn't that bad, either) for jamming with myself.

 

[dronerstone]

I remember two (back then) close friends of mine, who had the GT-8 and GT PRO (basically a rack-shape GT-8).

The software was quirky, even for that era, but the sounds weren't bad at all. Still not my particular cup of tea - I remember thinking it sounded too run-of-the-mill and less unique than the various (disgusting) combinations of 5-10 daisy-chained pedals I'd dump on the floor without a board back then... Messy AF.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Pffft, you guys and your BOSS and Yamaha. I had the OG modeler:

Analog though! I had the cheaper, german equivalent, the Nobels Sound Studio 1-x (there's also been yet an older one, but that one sucked sooo hard...):

Had quite some headphone fun with that guy.

 

[Sascha Franck]

GR-55 "Quick Edit" was the worst,

Muahahah on the Quick Edit! The GT-10 had that, too. And each and every sound was as if a cat randomly stomped over the switches and had some fun with the jog wheel!

 

[TubeStack]

It's funny, the early days of modellers passed me by, compared to most around here. I was an old-school, 90s rock guy, always gigging with a Marshall half stack, and I remember being in music stores looking at Pods and being like, “WTF are these little things.” Didn't help that I bought a ZOOM 505II to use with headphones in an apartment and absolutely hated it.

 

[mbenigni]

It's funny, the early days of modellers passed me by, compared to most around here. I was an old-school, 90s rock guy, always gigging with a Marshall half stack, and I remember being in music stores looking at Pods and being like, “WTF are these little things.” Didn't help that I bought a ZOOM 505II to use with headphones in an apartment and absolutely hated it.

You dodged a bullet. I was an early adopter - figured I could have a wider variety of sounds than I could afford if I stuck with real tube amps. I honestly wish I'd ignored digital for another 10 years or so, until it had matured some. There was a lot of frustration, and a lot of compromises, in those early days.

 

[Lysander]

First truly affordable digital multieffects?

Sure, it mostly sounds like crap by today's standards, but f.ex. the digital noise gate (a.k.a ZNR) was always surprisingly good in these.

 

[TubeStack]

You dodged a bullet. I was an early adopter - figured I could have a wider variety of sounds than I could afford if I stuck with real tube amps. I honestly wish I'd ignored digital for another 10 years or so, until it had matured some. There was a lot of frustration, and a lot of compromises, in those early days.

I should add: I don't mean to sound dismissive or like I'm putting down the spirit/fun of the thread. Just don't have the early experiences with modellers that many here do and became interested in them much later, after discovering guitar forums and Fractal, observing the arrival of Kemper and Helix, etc. Still took me a while to really dive in, though, and it's still very on/off. But the whole field is fascinating and seems to be the future, to me.

 

[NKP]

First truly affordable digital multieffects?

View attachment 5926
Sure, it's mostly sounds like crap by today's standards, but f.ex. the digital noise gate (a.k.a ZNR) was always surprisingly good in these.

This was my first