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Oh, I'm with ya'. There are dozens of features that people request that make me personally go "I know, right?!" but professionally go "Dang, that's gonna take a lot of convincing the powers that be."
Digital Igloo (Eric Klein, YGG)
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Sascha Franck
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Point taken. And when you look around forums and such, it's hardly much happening that people try to get the most of what they already have at their disposal, let alone performing some "true" exploration ("Now, how do I modify this IR so it suits my needs instead of purchasing yet another bundle?"). Instead, they'll be asking for 23 more amp models. And obviously, as a company you gotta deliver what people are begging for, at least most of the time. Yet, I think sometimes it's a good idea to raise the bars.
Stone
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Well these powers that be whomever they maybe were wrong about a few things ... Notably a high end Modeller costing big $$
JCW308
Roadie
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D.I. is there a board or something above you, who you have to present ideas to for the final decision? This is interesting!
laxu
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What kind of features require the most convincing? Too niche ones? Ones that don't make for nice marketing?
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Yep, and "people won't want a touchscreen on the floor."Well these powers that be whomever they maybe were wrong about a few things ... Notably a high end Modeller costing big $$
The first step is to create a 3-page PID (Product Idea Document). Mainly a rough wireframe mockup of what it might look like, top five features, some early financial assumptions (target MAP, expected ex-factory cost, expected run rates, etc.). It's presented first to the Products team for additional brainstorming, and if approved, to the development team to get a rough idea of feasibility and cost. Then it's presented to the Sales and Marketing teams. Then there's a bi-weekly PID approval meeting where it's rated in a dozen or so categories, which gives it an overall score. That determines if it gets made and if so, how it should be prioritized given the existing product roadmap. On rare occasion a project may end up with a low score but its strategic and intangible benefits push it through.
Then the real work starts: TRDs (Technical Requirement Document), additional feasibility studies, cost studies, competitive matrices, etc. A 30+-slide Powerpoint is created and presented to about 50-60 people from all disciplines; everyone has a chance to ask questions, suggest changes, say "that's so dumb, Eric, you should be ashamed," etc. If it passes, it's officially made a project and is given a project code (Helix Floor is P21, Helix Rack is P28, Helix LT is P32, HX Effects is F15 (effects-only products have a different category for some reason), HX Stomp is P33, POD Go is P34-1, POD Go Wireless is P34-2, HX Stomp XL is P36, DL4 MkII is F16... The project code appears on a white sticker on the side of the packaging, so it's not really a secret.
What happened to P23, P24, P25, P26, P27, P29, P30, P31, and P35? Those projects were paused/backburnered, are still being developed, or were cancelled entirely. POD HD500X, POD HD Pro X, AMPLIFi FX100, and Firehawk FX are somewhere in there too (which all started after Helix Floor) but I forget their codes.
There are additional gates the project has to go through—sometimes spanning several years—each one adding additional data and validation. At any gate, for any number of reasons, the project can be mercilessly killed.
If something costs a lot (or appears to cost a lot) to develop and its benefits aren't completely understood by certain members of the staff, Product Managers may create a fancy animated Keynote/Powerpoint to explain how everything will work and if necessary, hook up a bunch of gear and computers to emulate it.
Some features and services are more strategic in nature or act as a test platform for a bigger set of features and services in the future. That is, users may not fully get why we do something, but it may make sense later. Roland/BOSS is really good about this—they'll occasionally release entire products that may not make sense and don't sell at all but include several features and/or hardware elements that find themselves in many future products. Just one example: their SonicCell tabletop synth module was likely a test platform for a bunch of Fantom-G generation features.
We'll work with marketing to ensure they understand a feature's benefit, but they may choose to focus marketing deliverables on different stuff. That's totally fine, as long as I get to write the Release Notes and forum-centric FAQs so y'all get the real story.
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Stone
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Jeez that's a lot of work Eric, whatever they are paying you its not enough
that was a very interesting read gives a clearer picture on the process and also shows us how hard everyone @ line6/YGG works to bring us fantastic and exceptional products
Cheers
Sascha Franck
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If they have no alternative between "no touchscreen" and "touchscreen on the floor", people obviously go for the touchscreen option. But if they had a decent alternative, they'd probably rather chose that.
Stone
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I would think this is a Very nice feature for the HX/Helix Family for the gigging musician, as for myself im 99% exclusive to HX Edit Room player/enthusiast
I bend down only to keep my Helix clean
But would I buy the Next Gen platform even if i would not use the TS ? of course because ill buy the product based on what i will use not on what i wont use
i cant really speak on how much the actual screen would add to the cost of a Next Gen platform but im almost certain its not that much more expensive than a passive LCD screen
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Stretch a lot of that work over many years and it's not so bad. Some of the studies' heavy lifting aren't my responsibility (like cost studies; I just need the final number for the keynote). I'm also probably overselling the administrative-ness of it all; most of this stuff happens fairly transparently and organically. There's definitely a bit of political maneuvering required at times to ensure your ideas have the best chance for success, and of course it helps when you trust the Sound Design and Development teams 100%.Jeez that's a lot of work Eric, whatever they are paying you its not enough
that was a very interesting read gives a clearer picture on the process and also shows us how hard everyone @ line6/YGG works to bring us fantastic and exceptional products
I'm happiest digging deep into TRDs—the design and definition stuff. The administrative side can be a slog, sure, but it's way better than us approving a less-than-ideal project and then wasting precious development effort that could be used elsewhere. (Almost) all mercilessly killed projects should've been mercilessly killed. Won't specify them, but a couple that made it to the market probably should've been mercilessly killed too.
This was back in 2012, tho', so there wasn't any precedent. And big ideas were scary back then, it being post-recession and all. Bummer that cold feet beat cooler heads, but almost none of those people are here any longer, so...
We knew the first competitive reaction to Helix's big color screen would likely take the next step, and Headrush did just that.
Many LCDs can add a bog-standard touch layer, and the part's not overly expensive, but to do it justice—that is, to make the experience more like an iPhone and less like a circa-'95 Korg Trinity—means things quickly get more expensive and complicated.I would think this is a Very nice feature for the HX/Helix Family for the gigging musician, as for myself im 99% exclusive to HX Edit Room player/enthusiast
I bend down only to keep my Helix clean
But would I buy the Next Gen platform even if i would not use the TS ? of course because ill buy the product based on what i will use not on what i wont use
i cant really speak on how much the actual screen would add to the cost of a Next Gen platform but im almost certain its not that much more expensive than a passive LCD screen
Plus, we developed a robust touchscreen-based UI back in 2009-2012, so it's not like we don't know how to do them well.
Sascha Franck
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As said before: Ditch the entire large screen entirely and offer a super comfortable option to connect a mobile device, obviously including a decent iOS/Android version of HX Edit. Number of modeler users without a smartphone and/or tablet: Probably approaching zero.
the-trooper
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God, no.
jellodog
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Problem with that approach is that with its own screen, a modeller could be used for 20 years without support from the manufacturer (a business which might not support an OS after 5 years, or could go out of business). Whereas mobile phone operating systems change all the time. Losing the screen would likely be a terrible cause of premature obsolescence.
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Sascha Franck
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Why not? Do you prefer crawling on the floor to use your precious touchscreen while enjoying a beer shower and drunken stage divers stomping on it, checking out whether that gorilla glass really deserves its name?
Sascha Franck
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Well, you could just keep a dedicated mobile device for editing duties.
Edit: And fwiw, do you think HX Edit will become obsolete any day soon?
the-trooper
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The idea of a modeler that can't be fully and properly edited on the modeler itself but having some crippled down back to 2000 menus, AND on top of that being dependent on third party unit to edit it, sounds absolutely horrible to me. Big screen is just one of the things that made Helix what it is.
As an option like some units already have, sure, go for it.
But it has to be done on the unit! (Is this a quote from some movie?)
No thanks, give me knobs and buttons, hold the touchscreen. Try to use it with some sweat on your finger, and you'll understand why.
Stone
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Id Imagine there will be a New Editing Platform for the Next Generation Modeler so HX edit will be relegated to a legacy status for older platforms, but it works flawlessly and can continue to work a long time even if product will not be updated
IE: if new platform comes out next year but i cant affordt the latest platform i may still use my Helix for the next 4-5 years provided no major issues with the hardaware, and im perfectly fine with that i have not even used most of whats in the Helix anyways
Sascha Franck
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Exactly. I'd rather have much more knobs than any big screens at all. Patch layouts is something that could be done beforehand. No need for a huge screen at all - especially not on the floor where chances for breakage are high.
laxu
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Makes me happy I'm just a senior level programmer so I don't have to deal with all this! Sounds like a lot of work!
the-trooper
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Helix being on the market for this long, and being successfully used in all sort, size and type events, is enough proof of concept that a big screen is not an issue :)
But, I'm aware that the whole argument is pointless because I'm 100% certain that every next generation of modelers, by any manufacturer, will have a touchscreen. It's the direction that all industries are taking, from cars to fridges (touchscreens in cars should die and never return).