Calibrating Input Level for Plugins

[JiveTurkey]

The ToneX Pedal has a reference input dBu and acts as an audio interface, there should be ZERO guessing when capturing with it.

Yeah as an interface; it seemed super clunky vs. the Axe I/O. For me at least? I have so many d@mn devices that are audio interfaces (beyond their main functions as modelers, etc.). I don't like switching from one to another as time is already fairly limited vs. readjusting yourself every time you go to do something different. The profile juice currently is worth the squeeze for me.

 

[Orvillain]

I was referring to the software just in case it isn't clear. My gear is good gear, and I'm not using the ToneX pedal or the ToneX Capture box.

 

[James Freeman]

I was referring to the software just in case it isn't clear. My gear is good gear, and I'm not using the ToneX pedal or the ToneX Capture box.

Yes, I understand, I meant that ToneX pedal has a fixed input dBu value that should be the reference for the output test signal level no matter what interface you use.
We can easily measure it by sending a 0.500v signal into the ToneX Pedal and watching the dBFS meter in the DAW, then output the same level signal from our good audio interfaces for capturing.

 

[StratsoundFan]

Can someone help me out here!? Below are the specs for the instrument input of my audio interface ( Audient id4 mkii ).
If I have input gain on the audio inerface set at zero, how much should I boost the signal in the DAW!? I'm using Reaper. I've alwaysused the input gain of the audio interface to find the sweet spot for my guitars, by strumming hard while trying to stay in the -24 to -12 db range, just like most amp sim makers recommend, but if your suggestion could yield better results, I'm all in. Thanks.

D.I / Instrument Input​

RANGE:	40dB
LINEUP:	12dBu = 0dBFS
THD+N @ 0dBu:	0.1%
SNR:	100dBu A-Weighted
FREQUENCY RESPONSE – MIN GAIN	±0.5dB 10Hz to 20kHz

 

[DrewJD82]

ToneX is ... special.
Can you 'Next' without adjusting the level?

 

[James Freeman]

less word = more understand

 

[James Freeman]

Can someone help me out here!? Below are the specs for the instrument input of my audio interface ( Audient id4 mkii ).
If I have input gain on the audio inerface set at zero, how much should I boost the signal in the DAW!? I'm using Reaper. I've alwaysused the input gain of the audio interface to find the sweet spot for my guitars, by strumming hard while trying to stay in the -24 to -12 db range, just like most amp sim makers recommend, but if your suggestion could yield better results, I'm all in. Thanks.

D.I / Instrument Input​

RANGE:	40dB
LINEUP:	12dBu = 0dBFS
THD+N @ 0dBu:	0.1%
SNR:	100dBu A-Weighted
FREQUENCY RESPONSE – MIN GAIN	±0.5dB 10Hz to 20kHz

What plugins do you use? We calibrate for a specific plugins which 'expects' a certain dBu input.
For Helix Native 12 dBu is bang on (11.5 actually), leave gain at zero and play.

I've always used the input gain of the audio interface to find the sweet spot for my guitars, by strumming hard while trying to stay in the -24 to -12 db range,

This thread tries to make people (manufacturers included) understand why this instruction is a load of bullshit, especially for guitar amp plugins where gain is everything.

Manufacturers need to start posting dBu values for their plugins.

 

[StratsoundFan]

99% of the time., I use NAM, Tonex and Overloud TH-U.

 

[James Freeman]

You're out of luck, NAM and ToneX are completely random, and TH-U is unknown.

 

[StratsoundFan]

You're out of luck, NAM and ToneX are completely random, and TH-U is unknown.

What do you mean by this? Does it mean I have to do the guesswork for every capture individually, or am I missing something?

 

[James Freeman]

Does it mean I have to do the guesswork for every capture individually

Yes.
That makes the importance of calibration and standardization very clear isn't it? :)

 

[StratsoundFan]

Yes.
That makes the importance of calibration and standardization very clear isn't it? :)

Ok, but why is it not possible to calibrate the plugins I've mentioned!? What makes them different to say Helix or Amplitube?

 

[James Freeman]

Ok, but why is it not possible to calibrate the plugins I've mentioned!?

Because the models (captures) are made by random people with random setups, unlike Helix where all models were made for one specific dBu scale which is the Helix hardware.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

For the more visual learners, these may be handy. You can measure and calibrate your DI and reamp boxes for whatever works best for you and your specific set up and requirements.



and for reamping (especially useful if you are making NAM or ToneX models):

 

[MirrorProfiles]

https://www.ikmultimedia.com/products/axeioone/index.php?p=specs
New IK Guitar focussed interface.


If 10.5dB for 0dBFS is how IK have been rolling all this time for ToneX and Amplitube, then no wonder everyone is having to boost their DI's so much.

But also - I wonder if these correspond to anything IK has done before. Amplitube has been around so long, and I have no idea how consistent IK have been with defining this sort of stuff over the years.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

@James Freeman Can you make any sense of their reamp level specs relative to the input?

 

[James Freeman]

Axe I/O is +14 dBu.

AXE I/O

Premium audio interface with advanced guitar tone shaping

www.ikmultimedia.com

 

[MirrorProfiles]

Just saw the other Axe is 12.5dBu.

Actually half hoping that this release MAY help IK give some clarity on what their recommended levels are. Jason Sadites hinted at something becoming clearer with setting levels soon, and this would fit the bill. Just have to hope that this was designed with their own software in mind.

 

[James Freeman]

@James Freeman Can you make any sense of their reamp level specs relative to the input?

Nope, I can't.

Just saw the other Axe is 12.5dBu.
Guessing IK are in as much of a mess with their levels as everyone else is

It sucks, because I care for accuracy, especially with good component modeling.
In amp modeling GAIN is everything, why plugin manufacturers totally ignore this randomness is beyond me.

And the saddest part is it is even worse with captures, there is no consistency between captures.
It's all just a random mess of gain fiddling.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

It sucks, because I care for accuracy, especially with good component modeling.
In amp modeling GAIN is everything, why plugin manufacturers totally ignore this randomness is beyond me.

And the saddest part is it is even worse with captures, there is no consistency between captures.
It's all just a random mess of gain fiddling.

Yep - IK have been in the game for AGES and are sat on so much amazing software, and it just feels like they shoot themselves in the foot as far as giving the user's the best experience. Frustrates me no end how certain issues for users simply don't get resolved.

No idea what benefit it serves keeping the values a mystery (they're not alone there though).