Board plans

[Orvillain]

I think this is where I'm gonna go with the board. As much as I love Helix Floor, I wanna move away from it for live work, because I miss having some of the effects from the Strymons, and I really want more than 8 snapshots... and the GigRig G3 gives me that. A dedicated looper without having to fanny around with toggling modes. An expression pedal that can control any effect via midi, depending on what preset I am on on the G3. My BB535 wah as standard, and all the relevant front end effects for the amp.

G3 Loops:

1 - GE-7 (one of the newest surface mount ones, which are supposed to be super quiet)
2 - DD-8 (set to reverse mode, and tempo sync'd using the remote outputs on the G3)
3 - DM-2w (Nice bit of analog moistness)
4 - SD-1w (my preferred boost)
5 - MXR Reverb (lots of cool sounds in this)
6 - HX Stomp (gives me all of my legacy song-specific effects; oscillating delays and mixed-in pitch whammy stuff, as well as compression and gate)
7 - Amp FX loop
8 - Timeline (always loved this pedal, probably my favourite delay ever)
9 - Big Sky (likewise, probably my favourite reverb ever, used both of these Strymon's on the last album A LOT)
10 - Empty
11 - Empty
12 - Empty

.. I could potentially do stereo for the timeline+big sky.... we'll see.

All with either my Diezel D-Moll, VH4, or Marshall JVM.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

have you joined a church?





just kidding. this looks like a beast. I think the HX stomp is ideal to use like this where you supplement your main pedals and it fills all the gaps, and offers some extras for good measure.

 

[jellodog]

@Orvillain Why the MXR Reverb and the BigSky? Does it have a very specific sound?

 

[Orvillain]

have you joined a church?

I'd join the Church of Satan if it was free. Coz I'm an edgiboi.

just kidding. this looks like a beast. I think the HX stomp is ideal to use like this where you supplement your main pedals and it fills all the gaps, and offers some extras for good measure.

I've got quite a few signature bits that I've been doing on Helix since 2016. So the HX Stomp allows me to continue doing those. But really when it comes to delays and reverbs, my heart lies with Strymon. I can't deny it any longer.

@Orvillain Why the MXR Reverb and the BigSky? Does it have a very specific sound?

Genuinely, I asked myself the same thing. Now.... the MXR Reverb just has quite a few cool tones in it... and stacking it with other reverb pedals quite often gets you these huge washes that sit really nicely under your playing. Sorta the same principle as using multiple compression stages on a signal. I mean, that's my justification anyway!

 

[jellodog]

Genuinely, I asked myself the same thing. Now.... the MXR Reverb just has quite a few cool tones in it... and stacking it with other reverb pedals quite often gets you these huge washes that sit really nicely under your playing. Sorta the same principle as using multiple compression stages on a signal. I mean, that's my justification anyway!

Yeah, I thought it might also be to do with reverb stacking, given your ouevre. But I've never owned a BigSky and wasn't sure if you could stack within it, or not.

 

[Orvillain]

Nah, it's pretty much one engine at a time, same as Timeline + Mobius. The Boss RV-500 and DD-500 (both of which I own too) allow a+b simultanous mode, which allows a kind of stacking... but Boss has a really dumb bug/design decision in there, where when you enable it you get different delay times (and I'd assume reverb pre-delay times too?) when routing them in series. So pretty much it only works in parallel... which gives you a different sound.

 

[SillyOctpuss]

Fuck that's a cool board dude. Really great choices on that, hard to see anything it wouldn't pull off well.

I'd love a g3 but they're way outside my price range. Being able to change the order of the loops would be ace and I really do need to get a switcher to see if it'll fix some of the issues I have with pedals not playing well together.

 

[Orvillain]

Enough beer has entered my system. I've pre-ordered the G3.

f**k that's a cool board dude. Really great choices on that, hard to see anything it wouldn't pull off well.

I'd love a g3 but they're way outside my price range. Being able to change the order of the loops would be ace and I really do need to get a switcher to see if it'll fix some of the issues I have with pedals not playing well together.

Tis a lot of cash, no doubt. But I've got 3k in pedals sat here, and most of them I could probably shift tbh... so eventually it'll come out in the wash. I want something I can use long term.

Re-ordering the loops will be killer for sure! Parallel path too.. dual amps.. with a phase flip control for the 2nd output... there's a lot going for it tbh! Much prefer the workflow than the Boss ES series as well.

 

[SillyOctpuss]

Enough beer has entered my system. I've pre-ordered the G3.


Tis a lot of cash, no doubt. But I've got 3k in pedals sat here, and most of them I could probably shift tbh... so eventually it'll come out in the wash. I want something I can use long term.

Re-ordering the loops will be killer for sure! Parallel path too.. dual amps.. with a phase flip control for the 2nd output... there's a lot going for it tbh! Much prefer the workflow than the Boss ES series as well.

Crap I hadn't even realised you'll be able to run it out into D-Moll and JVM. That'll be godlike to be in the room with them both cooking...

But then tone in the room doesn't matter apparently

 

[jellodog]

@Orvillain Don't know if you've felt one of those OptoKick TheGigRig footswitches (do you have the switcher already?) but they are

There's one (yes, one!) on my Hamstead Tremolo and it's so niiiiiice, I can totally see why people love their stuff.

 

[Whizzinby]

That’s a proper pedal board. I’ve thought about building out an elaborate pedal board just to justify getting a G3. (Like a true degenerate)

Add a Deco and Dig and it’s perfect

 

[laxu]

I don't get the appeal of the Gigrig loop switchers. Every time I see them on That Pedal Show, they seem cumbersome to work with where they end up pressing multiple buttons to toggle stuff and so on. Maybe in real use it is fine and TPS guys are not reprogramming it for a YT video. Which on the other hand could mean that it's a chore to do...

I don't see this rig as necessarily easier than using the Helix Floor with the Strymons plugged into its fx loops but if you need more snapshots there's not much you can do than go to a different setup.

If you don't have the G3 yet, have you looked into the Morningstar ML10X? Of course you need a separate MIDI controller but that may or may not be a plus too.

 

[Orvillain]

I don't get the appeal of the Gigrig loop switchers. Every time I see them on That Pedal Show, they seem cumbersome to work with where they end up pressing multiple buttons to toggle stuff and so on. Maybe in real use it is fine and TPS guys are not reprogramming it for a YT video. Which on the other hand could mean that it's a chore to do...

I don't see this rig as necessarily easier than using the Helix Floor with the Strymons plugged into its fx loops but if you need more snapshots there's not much you can do than go to a different setup.

If you don't have the G3 yet, have you looked into the Morningstar ML10X? Of course you need a separate MIDI controller but that may or may not be a plus too.

The appeal of the G3 is actually precisely how easy it is to use and how configurable it is.

I like the Morningstar stuff, but not a fan of the screens. What I like about the GigRig G3 is how easy it is to use and how self contained everything is - no saving presets required, just go to the one you want, activate the loops you want, and it remembers everything. Nice big screen for reading out preset names. You can set it up so that a few switches are 'whole unit' presets, and a few are 'stompbox' presets.... which you can activate on top of another preset.... imagine it as like Helix's 4 snaps/4 stomps visibility setting for preset mode.

The thing with Helix... okay, well check this out....

- Comparable amount of floor real estate required, Helix setup would either go a little deeper, or a little wider if I put the Timeline and BigSky to the right side.
- On Helix I struggle to just quickly get to the looper in the heat of playing. Wouldn't have that with singles setup.
- On Helix I get 8 snapshots, which if I'm being super exacting about my tones and matching to the albums, isn't enough.
- On Helix I have had to move over to a '1 preset per song' way of working, which requires me to bank around. Wouldn't have that with G3.
- The reason I wouldn't have that with G3 is because G3 is very configurable; you can set 4 switches up to be 'global presets' and the rest of the switches to just activate specific stomp sounds - ie; four switches to amp+gain stages.... all the others to turn on/off the delays and reverbs AND also control their presets. This is a bit more flexible than what Helix gives me.
- If I wanna quickly adjust the EQ that hits the front of my amp (I tend to prefer this to an OD pedal a lot of the time) then on Helix I need to adjust in every preset; having a dedicated pedal for it works better for me.
- This allows me to pick and choose the flavours of delay and reverb that I like, which again is why I have the MXR on there as well.
- HX Stomp allows me to do all the same stuff I've been doing with Helix too (delay oscillations and pitch stuff mostly)

So in effect... I'm kinda going "Helix Modular" rather than 100% Helix. I'm still really fond of the Floor and will keep my unit, but only for home use.

One of the main reasons to move away is that I'm just not digging the Helix delays and reverbs very much any more. I hate to admit it, but it is the truth. Whenever I'm next to another guitarist who has Strymon or Boss pedals, I prefer their tones. Every single time. And no amount of tweaking has changed that over the last few years (really, I've been thinking of this move for years now!)

I pre-ordered my G3 last night! The build begins!

I got the idea just now of instead of having the Boss DD-8 on the board... get a Boss DD-200. Same sounds more or less, but midi controllable and more presets.

 

[TubeStack]

The appeal of the G3 is actually precisely how easy it is to use and how configurable it is.

I like the Morningstar stuff, but not a fan of the screens. What I like about the GigRig G3 is how easy it is to use and how self contained everything is - no saving presets required, just go to the one you want, activate the loops you want, and it remembers everything. Nice big screen for reading out preset names. You can set it up so that a few switches are 'whole unit' presets, and a few are 'stompbox' presets.... which you can activate on top of another preset.... imagine it as like Helix's 4 snaps/4 stomps visibility setting for preset mode.

The thing with Helix... okay, well check this out....

View attachment 5927

- Comparable amount of floor real estate required, Helix setup would either go a little deeper, or a little wider if I put the Timeline and BigSky to the right side.
- On Helix I struggle to just quickly get to the looper in the heat of playing. Wouldn't have that with singles setup.
- On Helix I get 8 snapshots, which if I'm being super exacting about my tones and matching to the albums, isn't enough.
- On Helix I have had to move over to a '1 preset per song' way of working, which requires me to bank around. Wouldn't have that with G3.
- The reason I wouldn't have that with G3 is because G3 is very configurable; you can set 4 switches up to be 'global presets' and the rest of the switches to just activate specific stomp sounds - ie; four switches to amp+gain stages.... all the others to turn on/off the delays and reverbs AND also control their presets. This is a bit more flexible than what Helix gives me.
- If I wanna quickly adjust the EQ that hits the front of my amp (I tend to prefer this to an OD pedal a lot of the time) then on Helix I need to adjust in every preset; having a dedicated pedal for it works better for me.
- This allows me to pick and choose the flavours of delay and reverb that I like, which again is why I have the MXR on there as well.
- HX Stomp allows me to do all the same stuff I've been doing with Helix too (delay oscillations and pitch stuff mostly)

So in effect... I'm kinda going "Helix Modular" rather than 100% Helix. I'm still really fond of the Floor and will keep my unit, but only for home use.

One of the main reasons to move away is that I'm just not digging the Helix delays and reverbs very much any more. I hate to admit it, but it is the truth. Whenever I'm next to another guitarist who has Strymon or Boss pedals, I prefer their tones. Every single time. And no amount of tweaking has changed that over the last few years (really, I've been thinking of this move for years now!)

I pre-ordered my G3 last night! The build begins!

I got the idea just now of instead of having the Boss DD-8 on the board... get a Boss DD-200. Same sounds more or less, but midi controllable and more presets.

Stomp + pedals is a great way to go and super fun/flexible. I'm currently doing the same, albeit switching from the FM9, not Helix, and on a much smaller basis, board/effects-wise (ie. going back to my beloved PT Jr, even the Classic 2 has turned out to be too big for my liking, haha.)

 

[Orvillain]

Stomp + pedals is a great way to go and super fun/flexible. I'm currently doing the same, albeit switching from the FM9, not Helix, and on a much smaller basis, board/effects-wise (ie. going back to my beloved PT Jr, even the Classic 2 has turned out to be too big for my liking, haha.)

I actually considered an FC12 for my Axe3, or the FM9 as well. Would have more switches, more switching flexibility. But at the end of the day, hands on control won out. I love my Axe3, but that's a home toy really. Not a live thing.

 

[laxu]

The appeal of the G3 is actually precisely how easy it is to use and how configurable it is.

I like the Morningstar stuff, but not a fan of the screens. What I like about the GigRig G3 is how easy it is to use and how self contained everything is - no saving presets required, just go to the one you want, activate the loops you want, and it remembers everything. Nice big screen for reading out preset names. You can set it up so that a few switches are 'whole unit' presets, and a few are 'stompbox' presets.... which you can activate on top of another preset.... imagine it as like Helix's 4 snaps/4 stomps visibility setting for preset mode.

But at the same time you give up things like scribble strips and have to go to tape labels for your footswitches. To me the G3 just seems a bit dated even when it was released - good feature set but the operation seems like a lot of layers of stuff when you go beyond the basic preset editing.

The thing with Helix... okay, well check this out....

View attachment 5927

- Comparable amount of floor real estate required, Helix setup would either go a little deeper, or a little wider if I put the Timeline and BigSky to the right side.
- On Helix I struggle to just quickly get to the looper in the heat of playing. Wouldn't have that with singles setup.
- On Helix I get 8 snapshots, which if I'm being super exacting about my tones and matching to the albums, isn't enough.
- On Helix I have had to move over to a '1 preset per song' way of working, which requires me to bank around. Wouldn't have that with G3.
- The reason I wouldn't have that with G3 is because G3 is very configurable; you can set 4 switches up to be 'global presets' and the rest of the switches to just activate specific stomp sounds - ie; four switches to amp+gain stages.... all the others to turn on/off the delays and reverbs AND also control their presets. This is a bit more flexible than what Helix gives me.
- If I wanna quickly adjust the EQ that hits the front of my amp (I tend to prefer this to an OD pedal a lot of the time) then on Helix I need to adjust in every preset; having a dedicated pedal for it works better for me.
- This allows me to pick and choose the flavours of delay and reverb that I like, which again is why I have the MXR on there as well.
- HX Stomp allows me to do all the same stuff I've been doing with Helix too (delay oscillations and pitch stuff mostly)

So in effect... I'm kinda going "Helix Modular" rather than 100% Helix. I'm still really fond of the Floor and will keep my unit, but only for home use.

Yeah I can understand the appeal of all that, being able to adapt it to your preferred workflow. The Helix does have a lot of value in having everything in one box where you can handle the routing and switching which tends to be usually the more awkward thing to set up with separate pedals, if you want one button switching convenience.

One of the main reasons to move away is that I'm just not digging the Helix delays and reverbs very much any more. I hate to admit it, but it is the truth. Whenever I'm next to another guitarist who has Strymon or Boss pedals, I prefer their tones. Every single time. And no amount of tweaking has changed that over the last few years (really, I've been thinking of this move for years now!)

You like what you like. For me Fractal's delays and reverbs are my yardstick as they sound great, but at the same time I love the hands-on adjustment I get from my Strymon Volante and Nightsky - and they certainly don't sound any worse than what Fractal offers.

I got the idea just now of instead of having the Boss DD-8 on the board... get a Boss DD-200. Same sounds more or less, but midi controllable and more presets.

Other than having a second delay, do you really need one when you have the Timeline and HX Stomp? Boss delays have never been that special to me that you couldn't get those sounds from something else.

---

The reason why I'm asking all this this is that my pedalboard at first was a mix of analog and digital pedals and it has basically gone "more Strymons!" the further it gets because being able to control all of them via MIDI without having loop switchers made things a lot more straightforward for me. Less rat's nest of patch cables under the board and having the pedals work in a mostly unified way was a plus.

Looks like this atm. The Iridium is not on the board yet, not quite sure how I will use it other than as an alternative to the Amp 1. Maybe a cab sim for the Amp1 with a loadbox in between. Planning to add the Morningstar MC6 Pro as a MIDI controller, used the XSonic Airstep before wirelessly, CME WIDI Jack under the board is to facilitate that. I will probably sell the Morningstar ML5 as the only pedal using it anymore is my DIY Hudson Broadcast PedalPCB clone. The grey boxes on the bottom are Temple Audio patch bay modules.

I've been slowly gathering this stuff used when I found a good deal, still expensive as hell and sometimes makes me question if it makes any sense. Atm it's basically just a "messing around at home" board.

 

[Orvillain]

Other than having a second delay, do you really need one when you have the Timeline and HX Stomp? Boss delays have never been that special to me that you couldn't get those sounds from something else.

You'd be surprised actually. None of the Helix digital delays sound as good or get as many echoes, without milking out, as the Boss ones. But yeah, I often stack up to 3 delays, so it's good to have the option.

You like what you like. For me Fractal's delays and reverbs are my yardstick as they sound great, but at the same time I love the hands-on adjustment I get from my Strymon Volante and Nightsky - and they certainly don't sound any worse than what Fractal offers.

Yeah agreed! Fractal should make some single pedals tbh.

The reason why I'm asking all this this is that my pedalboard at first was a mix of analog and digital pedals and it has basically gone "more Strymons!" the further it gets because being able to control all of them via MIDI without having loop switchers made things a lot more straightforward for me. Less rat's nest of patch cables under the board and having the pedals work in a mostly unified way was a plus.

Sounds like you're a candidate for a Strymon multi all in one tbh!!!

if you want one button switching convenience.

I think this is the thing... I want both - one button switching some of the time... and then the freedom to improvise tones on the fly at other times. Tricky to find a way to do that properly on the Helix IMHO.

But at the same time you give up things like scribble strips and have to go to tape labels for your footswitches. To me the G3 just seems a bit dated even when it was released - good feature set but the operation seems like a lot of layers of stuff when you go beyond the basic preset editing.

Despite what I said about the big screen on G3, I'm not too fussed about scribble strips and things like that. When I'm playing live I take my glasses off anyway (mid solo sometimes lolololol) and I can barely read a thing. Colours and large icons tend to be more useful to me, none of the modellers really do that. G3 doesn't either, but at least I can remember what all 14 switches do at any point, and I can do that without labelling them.

Whereas with Helix, because I'm doing preset-per-song, it's quite tricky to remember what each one does at any given time. I reckon if I set G3 up right, I can do all of our songs with 14 switches, rather than 5x8 switches like on Helix right now.

In short - I think it's the extra layers that appeal to me.

 

[Desertdweller]

The Big Sky is great, but IMO there are two pedals that surpass it. The GFI Specular Tempus and the Neunaber Illumine. I've owned all three, and the Neunaber is far and away my favorite.

 

[Orvillain]

The Big Sky is great, but IMO there are two pedals that surpass it. The GFI Specular Tempus and the Neunaber Illumine. I've owned all three, and the Neunaber is far and away my favorite.

Never tried those actually.

 

[Desertdweller]

Never tried those actually.

You should.