Axe-FX (A Love Story?) Rd.1

[la szum]

For anything Modeling its the only 2, Fractal and Helix, then there's the others
Maybe Bob might disagree lol

Some of us work from the bottom to the top, and Bob just prefers to travel another way.

Sorry, Bob.

 

[unix-guy]

I’m in the UK. £1,999 for a new FM9 Turbo here. I’ll pass for now. (I notice the warranty is not transferable with used units either.)

I'm in the US, but my understanding is that in UK and EU all Fractal devices come with a 3 year transferable warranty, as opposed to North America which gets a 1 year non-transferable one.

 

[unix-guy]

Ahh. I thought it imported them to the device.

Feature request?

Yeah... Only on the computer...

 

[Foxmeister]

I could go on for a while but I’ll stop there for now. My first-impressions summary is: if I tried the FM9 in isolation, without the Helix beside it to directly compare tones and split hairs, would I take it over the Helix? The honest answer for me right now, is no.

This was very much my experience with the FM series - definitely great units with some fantastic features, but I spent hours critically comparing the tones I like between the FM and the Helix, and decided I could get equivalent tones from both and I preferred the Helix workflow.

As I've said before though, I think a lot of this comes from having the Helix first - I think that if I'd had an FM unit first and then tried a Helix, I'd likely have stayed with the Fractal.

It has more amp and reverb models, but less variety in most everything else like drives and other pedals.

I significantly preferred the Helix drives over the ones in the Fractal.

l'm sure that a lot of this has to do with difference in the way these have been modelled - if I drop a KoT or a Tommy into a Helix signal chain I get a model with all the switches and modes that the real pedal has, whereas with the Fractal there are multiple models - I know that channels can mitigate this, but it just "feels" odd to me when you can so much advanced configuration on the Fractal (changing tubes, cap values etc).

 

[Foxmeister]

Seriously. It took me like 2 years to learn how to shit in a toilet.

Wait! Toilets are for shitting in?

 

[SwirlyMaple]

Swirly FM9 Day Two Update:

• Familiarized myself with the onboard UI. Usable now, and efficient enough for most things, once you already know what you're looking for and where to find it. Still find myself occasionally hitting buttons that take me to places I didn't intend to go, though.
• FM9 Edit is great. I think for newbies like myself, starting with it is best, so you learn what is available and how the system is laid out. Then learn the onboard UI so you have a mental context of all the pieces, and you just need to build a mental map of where it lives onboard.
• I wish there were more DynaCab options. There are so many amp models, but many of them don't have matching DynaCabs, and there isn't a ton of speaker+cab variety in the current DynaCabs either. Compare this to Helix, where every amp has DyncaCab-equivalent models for its matching stock cab.
  • This is a pretty glaring hole to me, considering how much of an amp's characteristic sound comes from its cab. The legacy IR library isn't a ton of help, because it has some holes too, and you only get a handful of mic types/positions from discrete IRs.
• Still impressed with the hardware and build quality, feel of the knobs and footswitches, etc. (I think Helix Floor and the FM9 are pretty equal here. My Helix fell sideways on a hardwood floor from 4 ft up and it did absolutely nothing to the Helix except take a little paint off the corner. The floor didn't fare so well though!)
• Drives, choruses, delays, etc. sound good, as expected. Helix still edges it out in variety, though, and I'm not yet hearing a significant tonal difference here vs. the Helix that would make me prefer the FM9.
• As someone who occasionally plays surf music, I really want those new spring reverb models in the FM9. They sound great from the Leon Todd demo. Nothing in the FM9 currently comes close.
• Amp modeling quality: for me, this is the key differentiator between the FM9 and Helix. After hours of use, I'm hearing what I expected to hear from the FM9, based on all the blind comparisons I've listened to over the years: with amp distortion, there is both a harmonic clarity and smoothness in the distortion with the FM9 that sounds more natural than some of the older Helix models. For Marshalls in particular, which is what I use most of the time, it's that last little 5% that makes a big enough difference to make you want to use the FM9. The higher gain Marshalls like the JCM800 just sound great. It has that smooth, lush, bright metallic clash like you expect to hear, with good frequency separation in the distortion without the upper harmonics hashy-mashing together.
  • I think the Helix is capable of a similar level of quality based on its newer models. It's the older ones that fall short. I wish Line 6 would take their current modeling expertise and re-master their older amp models to bring them up to par with the newest ones.
• Overall, so far, I think it's a great unit. The build quality and tones are there. Fractal's amp modeling is the benchmark for others. Comparing it to my Helix, if we were weighing all factors (UI, amp modeling, pedals/effects, build quality, etc.), I'd put them on an equal tier. The FM9 is better in some regards; the Helix better in others.

Lastly, I like making my own presets from scratch, but many of the stock ones in the FM9 are quite nice, like the Interstate Love Song preset ("Stone in Love"). A little out of practice on this one, but using the neck pickup on a strat:

 

[Rock Chalk]

Lastly, I like making my own presets from scratch, but many of the stock ones in the FM9 are quite nice, like the Interstate Love Song preset ("Stone in Love"). A little out of practice on this one, but using the neck pickup on a strat:

Nice clip and great playing.......I think that preset was made for Journey's "Stone in Love"......like I said, sounds great though.

 

[paisleywookiee]

Nice clip and great playing.......I think that preset was made for Journey's "Stone in Love"......like I said, sounds great though.View attachment 12504

Love both of those songs, and I think that preset works either way.

It always baffles me why people pay money for presets. The stock ones are quite good, and between that and the manual offer enough to teach people to dial in their own stuff, without paying people $50 for a handful of patches.

 

[SwirlyMaple]

Nice clip and great playing.......I think that preset was made for Journey's "Stone in Love"......like I said, sounds great though.View attachment 12504

Lol, so much for my memory of tones then! It's a swiss cheese up there in my cranium sometimes, I tell ya.

 

[la szum]

Swirly FM9 Day Two Update:

• Familiarized myself with the onboard UI. Usable now, and efficient enough for most things, once you already know what you're looking for and where to find it. Still find myself occasionally hitting buttons that take me to places I didn't intend to go, though.
• FM9 Edit is great. I think for newbies like myself, starting with it is best, so you learn what is available and how the system is laid out. Then learn the onboard UI so you have a mental context of all the pieces, and you just need to build a mental map of where it lives onboard.
• I wish there were more DynaCab options. There are so many amp models, but many of them don't have matching DynaCabs, and there isn't a ton of speaker+cab variety in the current DynaCabs either. Compare this to Helix, where every amp has DyncaCab-equivalent models for its matching stock cab.
  • This is a pretty glaring hole to me, considering how much of an amp's characteristic sound comes from its cab. The legacy IR library isn't a ton of help, because it has some holes too, and you only get a handful of mic types/positions from discrete IRs.
• Still impressed with the hardware and build quality, feel of the knobs and footswitches, etc. (I think Helix Floor and the FM9 are pretty equal here. My Helix fell sideways on a hardwood floor from 4 ft up and it did absolutely nothing to the Helix except take a little paint off the corner. The floor didn't fare so well though!)
• Drives, choruses, delays, etc. sound good, as expected. Helix still edges it out in variety, though, and I'm not yet hearing a significant tonal difference here vs. the Helix that would make me prefer the FM9.
• As someone who occasionally plays surf music, I really want those new spring reverb models in the FM9. They sound great from the Leon Todd demo. Nothing in the FM9 currently comes close.
• Amp modeling quality: for me, this is the key differentiator between the FM9 and Helix. After hours of use, I'm hearing what I expected to hear from the FM9, based on all the blind comparisons I've listened to over the years: with amp distortion, there is both a harmonic clarity and smoothness in the distortion with the FM9 that sounds more natural than some of the older Helix models. For Marshalls in particular, which is what I use most of the time, it's that last little 5% that makes a big enough difference to make you want to use the FM9. The higher gain Marshalls like the JCM800 just sound great. It has that smooth, lush, bright metallic clash like you expect to hear, with good frequency separation in the distortion without the upper harmonics hashy-mashing together.
  • I think the Helix is capable of a similar level of quality based on its newer models. It's the older ones that fall short. I wish Line 6 would take their current modeling expertise and re-master their older amp models to bring them up to par with the newest ones.
• Overall, so far, I think it's a great unit. The build quality and tones are there. Fractal's amp modeling is the benchmark for others. Comparing it to my Helix, if we were weighing all factors (UI, amp modeling, pedals/effects, build quality, etc.), I'd put them on an equal tier. The FM9 is better in some regards; the Helix better in others.

Lastly, I like making my own presets from scratch, but many of the stock ones in the FM9 are quite nice, like the Interstate Love Song preset ("Stone in Love"). A little out of practice on this one, but using the neck pickup on a strat:

Haha! You tricked me. I thought it was going to be Journey.

 

[la szum]

Love both of those songs, and I think that preset works either way.

It always baffles me why people pay money for presets. The stock ones are quite good, and between that and the manual offer enough to teach people to dial in their own stuff, without paying people $50 for a handful of patches.

Not to mention paying money for presets = you learn nothing about how to navigate and build your own.

I fully expect someone to take issue with that statement and quibble with me over that conclusion.

 

[SwirlyMaple]

@paisleywookiee Your new avatar is fantastic

 

[paisleywookiee]

Not to mention paying money for presets = you learn nothing about how to navigate and build your own.

I fully expect someone to take issue with that statement and quibble with me over that conclusion.

I’ll say it. It’s lazy, IMO. You spend a grand to two grand on something, learn how to use it properly.

 

[la szum]

I’ll say it. It’s lazy, IMO. You spend a grand to two grand on something, learn how to use it properly.

That's not very intuitive, though?

 

[paisleywookiee]

That's not very intuitive, though?

Well, you first have to decide whether the warts are worthwhile. Then you need to learn it. I think the UI warts are worth the tone, so I learned it.
I acknowledge though that with Fractal you have to be able to almost reverse engineer what they’re doing in the stock presets, in order to do your own.

 

[Mongillo19]

Not to mention paying money for presets = you learn nothing about how to navigate and build your own.

I fully expect someone to take issue with that statement and quibble with me over that conclusion.

Paying for presets never made sense to me.

Now I have bought one before for fractal where the user recreated the fuzz factory pedal and it sounds pretty spot on!

Take that as you will

 

[paisleywookiee]

Paying for presets never made sense to me.

Now I have bought one before for fractal where the user recreated the fuzz factory pedal and it sounds pretty spot on!

Take that as you will

Something unique like that makes sense. I just have to roll my eyes at someone selling “Metallica” patches, especially when it doesn’t actually sound like Metallica at all.

That said, if Jason Bieler himself releases his patches, I’m definitely buying that shit.

 

[la szum]

Oh, totally. I can get my way around a Fractal just fine. Barely acquainted with the manual and have
not watched any tutorials (though a frequent fan of LT and his channel)

UI considerations equaled 0.0% of my decision making process.

I also went Helix>Kemper>Fractal in that order, so I kind of knew what each did and didn't do tonally.

Whether that 5% difference in tone is 50% for some or .05% is irrelevant to me, just as my considerations
should be irrelevant for those for whom UI is a really big factor in what they want to use.

 

[la szum]

Paying for presets never made sense to me.

Now I have bought one before for fractal where the user recreated the fuzz factory pedal and it sounds pretty spot on!

Take that as you will

I wonder how it can sound spot on.... because no one has ever been able to make a Fuzz Factory
sound the same two times in a row.

I'd love to hear it, though.

 

[TSJMajesty]

I fully expect someone to take issue with that statement and quibble with me over that conclusion.

Well not now!