Anyone here own the Line 6 DL4 MKII?

[Orvillain]

Just curious what people think of it???

 

[DrewJD82]

I think @Whizzinby had one he sold recently?

 

[Whizzinby]

Yeah I had it for a few months. As a straight delay it was solid, but I got frustrated with the controls. What is Tweak and Tweez you might ask? Good question because I don’t know either, and more importantly what those knobs do change based on what delay you have selected. Memory game time. There are onboard reverbs. Great! Except they aren’t labeled, so you have to hold the alt button and turn the delay selector and have a graph next to you to know what reverb you’re selecting. Ok you didn’t like that one, so you move the selector to the next one. F**k, you forgot to hold the alt button and you changed the delay type. (Because a shift/reverb button is too much to ask, an alt button that has to be held continuously to change the pedal context is way more intuitive right? FML) You change the delay type back, hold alt button and reselect a new reverb. Great. WTF do Tweak and Tweez do for reverbs? Good question, consult your manual. Memory game time. Ok, I got it, let me turn the Tweak knob. F**k I didn’t hold alt to modify it for the Reverb, and modified the delay.

Yeah, I sold it.

It sounds good, and is obviously a great pedal given it’s popularity. I think the control could be wayyyyyy better but keep in mind I’m an idiot.

 

[JiveTurkey]

Yeah I had it for a few months. As a straight delay it was solid, but I got frustrated with the controls. What is Tweak and Tweez you might ask? Good question because I don’t know either, and more importantly what those knobs do change based on what delay you have selected. Memory game time. There are onboard reverbs. Great! Except they aren’t labeled, so you have to hold the alt button and turn the delay selector and have a graph next to you to know what reverb you’re selecting. Ok you didn’t like that one, so you move the selector to the next one. F**k, you forgot to hold the alt button and you changed the delay type. (Because a shift/reverb button is too much to ask, an alt button that has to be held continuously to change the pedal context is way more intuitive right? FML) You change the delay type back, hold alt button and reselect a new reverb. Great. WTF do Tweak and Tweez do for reverbs? Good question, consult your manual. Memory game time. Ok, I got it, let me turn the Tweak knob. F**k I didn’t hold alt to modify it for the Reverb, and modified the delay.

Yeah, I sold it.

It sounds good, and is obviously a great pedal given it’s popularity. I think the control could be wayyyyyy better but keep in mind I’m an idiot.

PTU withdrawal paperwork incoming.

 

[Gearzilla]

You’re going to want a couple of printed cheat sheets handy for the controls and reverbs. Adjustments are a bit clunky due to the hidden variety. Otherwise it’s basically going to sound like the two Helix blocks along with a looper function.

 

[itchyfingers]

If you owned the original DL4, its sort of a no-brainer. Exact same layout and FX, plus an alternate FX at each preset (that use the Helix algos). I can see how a first-timer might be turned off, as there's definitely a steep learning curve.

 

[yeky83]

Yeah I had it for a few months. As a straight delay it was solid, but I got frustrated with the controls. What is Tweak and Tweez you might ask? Good question because I don’t know either, and more importantly what those knobs do change based on what delay you have selected. Memory game time. There are onboard reverbs. Great! Except they aren’t labeled, so you have to hold the alt button and turn the delay selector and have a graph next to you to know what reverb you’re selecting. Ok you didn’t like that one, so you move the selector to the next one. F**k, you forgot to hold the alt button and you changed the delay type. (Because a shift/reverb button is too much to ask, an alt button that has to be held continuously to change the pedal context is way more intuitive right? FML) You change the delay type back, hold alt button and reselect a new reverb. Great. WTF do Tweak and Tweez do for reverbs? Good question, consult your manual. Memory game time. Ok, I got it, let me turn the Tweak knob. F**k I didn’t hold alt to modify it for the Reverb, and modified the delay.

Yeah, I sold it.

It sounds good, and is obviously a great pedal given it’s popularity. I think the control could be wayyyyyy better but keep in mind I’m an idiot.

That's why you had them stickers!

Looks like they still sell it:

DL4 / MM4 Tweak/Tweez Label

shop-us.line6.com

 

[Orvillain]

Just a quick bump - ignoring the control differences.. what are the tonal differences versus the original??

The original had a tendency to kill the high frequencies... but I'm just listening back to some old recordings and I'm loving the sounds I was getting from that pedal; well... the combination of pedals which were a DL4, Hardwire DL8, and Hardwire RV7.

@Digital Igloo - how does the tonality/conversion of the MKII compare to the MKI????

Thinking of picking one up....

 

[Blix]

Just a quick bump - ignoring the control differences.. what are the tonal differences versus the original??

The original had a tendency to kill the high frequencies... but I'm just listening back to some old recordings and I'm loving the sounds I was getting from that pedal; well... the combination of pedals which were a DL4, Hardwire DL8, and Hardwire RV7.

@Digital Igloo - how does the tonality/conversion of the MKII compare to the MKI????

Thinking of picking one up....

The MkII has the option of analog dry-through, that's a huge plus.

 

[Digital Igloo]

Just a quick bump - ignoring the control differences.. what are the tonal differences versus the original??

The original had a tendency to kill the high frequencies... but I'm just listening back to some old recordings and I'm loving the sounds I was getting from that pedal; well... the combination of pedals which were a DL4, Hardwire DL8, and Hardwire RV7.

@Digital Igloo - how does the tonality/conversion of the MKII compare to the MKI????

Thinking of picking one up....

Early on, we had discussed modeling the original's A/D/A conversion and op amps, just to make absolutely sure it sounded identical. Once we dug in, however, the marketing bullet "we even modeled the A/D/A conversion and op amps!" felt way more pointless hype than whatever objective (or even subjective) advantage we were seeing/hearing, so we used that DSP to support the hidden reverb block instead.

 

[Orvillain]

The MkII has the option of analog dry-through, that's a huge plus.

Huge plus! I can't believe I didn't already know that!

Early on, we had discussed modeling the original's A/D/A conversion and op amps, just to make absolutely sure it sounded identical. Once we dug in, however, the marketing bullet "we even modeled the A/D/A conversion and op amps!" felt way more pointless hype than whatever objective (or even subjective) advantage we were seeing/hearing, so we used that DSP to support the hidden reverb block instead.

Back in the day it was just one of those things you tolerated, because the pedal sounded so good, and gave you sooooo much. I'm hoping the MKII sounds a lot better with more modern conversion.

I think the addition of MIDI I/O swings it as well to be honest.

I've been going through the original projects for our 2nd album, and the DL4 is allllllll over that! One of my predominant delays. I even modded the footswitches and soldered in SPST switches when the actuators started dying. In fact, I think the old TNBD guitarist still owns that particular unit! He bought it off me around 2014.

 

[Orvillain]

That was my board at the time. I don't remember the signal path, and it isn't clear enough from the photo, which is the only one I have! Doh!!

I'm pretty sure the Budda Wah comes before the delays and reverb, but I really can't tell!

I think it is this:
Ernie Ball Vol. Jnr > Boss TU-2 > Small Stone > Nova Mod > SD-2 > DL4 > DL-8 > Budda Wah > RV-7

 

[EOengineer]

As far as I know the DL4 mk2 should sound similar to what you’d get out of any of the HX series delays and legacy verbs. The Helix delays are generally pretty good although I find sometimes I can’t find the balance between wet and washed out as easily as I’d like.

Depending on your use case, a used HXFX might give you a better live experience if you need adjustability. I get L6 wanted to pay homage to the first gen unit with the tweak and tweez controls, but IMO that’s something many of us suffered through but tolerated. I don’t know many people that loved that design decision.

 

[Orvillain]

As far as I know the DL4 mk2 should sound similar to what you’d get out of any of the HX series delays and legacy verbs. The Helix delays are generally pretty good although I find sometimes I can’t find the balance between wet and washed out as easily as I’d like.

Depending on your use case, a used HXFX might give you a better live experience if you need adjustability. I get L6 wanted to pay homage to the first gen unit with the tweak and tweez controls, but IMO that’s something many of us suffered through but tolerated. I don’t know many people that loved that design decision.

I actually love the stripped down and simple experience of the original DL4, and I loved the tweez and tweak controls. Back in the day it was always really easy to dial in a quick tone, without having to overthink it to death. I think that is the strength of these simpler "one knob per function" type stomp boxes.

I don't quite understand the built in reverb and how you access it on the MKII. I'll go and watch some clips.

 

[Cirrus]

I fear secondary functions and hidden controls.

 

[FuzzyAce]

Huge plus! I can't believe I didn't already know that!


Back in the day it was just one of those things you tolerated, because the pedal sounded so good, and gave you sooooo much. I'm hoping the MKII sounds a lot better with more modern conversion.

I think the addition of MIDI I/O swings it as well to be honest.

I've been going through the original projects for our 2nd album, and the DL4 is allllllll over that! One of my predominant delays. I even modded the footswitches and soldered in SPST switches when the actuators started dying. In fact, I think the old TNBD guitarist still owns that particular unit! He bought it off me around 2014.

I loved the first DL4 too. Some people didn't like the so-called sheen it put over your tone, but I liked it -- go figure. I let it go in a trade deal, stupidly, and considered many times buying an original again. But my pedal gas these days is waning.

 

[Cirrus]

So I actually think the op amps/ converters were great in those pedals. Tech specs be damned. The DM4 distortion algos sounded better to me in the DM4 by a long way than what I think were those exact same Algos in the M-series pedals.

 

[Digital Igloo]

I fear secondary functions and hidden controls.

Honest question about guitar products in general:

Would you say knowing there are secondary functions and hidden controls is a point of friction? For example, would your experience be better if you didn't know they were there? Say, they're easter egg functions for when someone online complains that the pedal can't do something (or requires an editor to access it). Someone could reply with "Oh yeah. If you hold [button] and turn [knob] you can actually adjust that."

Or would it be better if those secondary functions didn't exist at all and the product is what it is?

Or is it more "if that function is important, give it a dedicated button/knob/LCD menu item, even if that makes it bigger, more intimidating, and more expensive"?

 

[SillyOctpuss]

Or is it more "if that function is important, give it a dedicated button/knob/LCD menu item, even if that makes it bigger, more intimidating, and more expensive"?

I definitely fall into the last category. If the values for secondary functions aren't written on the dial/control panel and I need a cheatsheet to remember them I'm a lot less likely to bother tbh.

I'd probably default to using an editor if available in that scenario.

 

[yeky83]

Honest question about guitar products in general:

Would you say knowing there are secondary functions and hidden controls is a point of friction? For example, would your experience be better if you didn't know they were there? Say, they're easter egg functions for when someone online complains that the pedal can't do something (or requires an editor to access it). Someone could reply with "Oh yeah. If you hold [button] and turn [knob] you can actually adjust that."

Or would it be better if those secondary functions didn't exist at all and the product is what it is?

Or is it more "if that function is important, give it a dedicated button/knob/LCD menu item, even if that makes it bigger, more intimidating, and more expensive"?

Secondary functions as a point of friction... seems to be the case for Meris, not so much for Strymon #shittakesmushroom