Andy Eagle ( Guitar repair tech for 30 years )

Hey @Eagle

I asked you about that 2 point trem the other day (thx a lot again).

So I paint is finished and I put it back together. It's a kit guitar my wife gifted me, so... it was super cheap, but has some "sentimental value".

Problem is, that no matter what I do I run out of intonation space. As you see on the pic the Wilkinson trem (aftermarket) is already dialed back completely and the E (48 gauge) is juuuust in tune.

What can I do here? I guess the post on the thicker side is tilted bc the wood's just shit. Is this FUBAR or do you have any tip or trick here?#

Short edit: Some time ago I tried to fill the original hole with a dowel and super glue and redrilled it. But it will just tilt like that it seems. Should I replace that whole wood area with a hard wood piece?

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Press down on the wound strings in front of the saddle with your thumb firmly (but not to damage anything) and the intonation point will correct. You will then need to redo the intonation on those strings afterwards. This is caused but the sharp angle through the saddle interfering with how the string vibrates. It effectively acts to only start ringing properly in front of the saddle causing you to run out of space.
 
Eagle said:
Press down on the wound strings in front of the saddle with your thumb firmly (but not to damage anything) and the intonation point will correct. You will then need to redo the intonation on those strings afterwards. This is caused but the sharp angle through the saddle interfering with how the string vibrates. It effectively acts to only start ringing properly in front of the saddle causing you to run out of space.
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What? How didn't I know this after almost 20 years of guitar?

Anyway. I did as you said, the intonation was still off. Then I screwed the saddle a bit back towards the neck and the intonation was almost spot on. What the hell?

Thank you, @Eagle ! So many thanks for all this useful information you do here for free! You should write a book on setup n stuff.
 
BahamaDada said:
What? How didn't I know this after almost 20 years of guitar?

Anyway. I did as you said, the intonation was still off. Then I screwed the saddle a bit back towards the neck and the intonation was almost spot on. What the hell?

Thank you, @Eagle ! So many thanks for all this useful information you do here for free! You should write a book on setup n stuff.
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This is not really common knowledge and it is often the reason people have intonation problems on acoustic guitar. Oh and thanks for the kind words.
 
On almost any mass produced guitar that apparently won't intonate this is the reason . It is also why you get funky intonation patterns. I would say do this routinely on any string change and if you get a funky intonation pattern even if it plays in tune you should do this and reset to the correct position. The reason being that over time with metal fatigue the pattern will move if you don't .
 
Eagle said:
On almost any mass produced guitar that apparently won't intonate this is the reason . It is also why you get funky intonation patterns. I would say do this routinely on any string change and if you get a funky intonation pattern even if it plays in tune you should do this and reset to the correct position. The reason being that over time with metal fatigue the pattern will move if you don't .
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So it's just a wound string grabbing on the saddle a little too "soon"?
 
I've got another question, that is more of an opinion I'd like to hear from you:

In a world of unlimitied possibilities you get to design a tremolo guitar. THE tremolo guitar. Which trem system would you choose and why? (stability, quality, overall sound, etc)
 
BahamaDada said:
I've got another question, that is more of an opinion I'd like to hear from you:

In a world of unlimitied possibilities you get to design a tremolo guitar. THE tremolo guitar. Which trem system would you choose and why? (stability, quality, overall sound, etc)
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That’s very difficult because if you want a trem to be 100% it has to be double locking and not everyone needs that. I will give you both . The best locking design is easy , Floyd Rose . The best versions are the 1984 the 1996 and the Steeler. If I had to pick one it would be the Steeler with the auto latch.
Best none locking is either the 510ts with added Wilkinson locking saddles or the Wilkinson VS1300. Yes they both have locks on the saddle. As for what guitar to put them on. That’s going to be some kind of super strat. You asked about tone as well. All of these systems sound excellent and can be set up to stay in tune reliably and the Floyds almost impossible to put out of tune.
The Steeler is bulletproof in build quality and has a few refinements that give it the edge. But I would prefer it on Gotoh 510 studs but I haven’t tried it yet. It has a stepped base that allows all the saddles to be the same and better clamping. The auto latch allows locking to hard tail just by parking the arm.
It’s back in production so I will hopefully start seeing them again soon. There are other good options but none are better than these.
 
@Eagle Is it important for a floating trem (non locking) to be flush not angled ?
on my Ibanez its not Flush but tilted towards the rear
Stays in tune just curious

Thank you
 
Stone said:
@Eagle Is it important for a floating trem (non locking) to be flush not angled ?
on my Ibanez its not Flush but tilted towards the rear
Stays in tune just curious

Thank you
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It is actually likely to return to pitch more easily BUT it will have less resistance to going flat during double stop bends. The best for that is parallel with the strings.
 
Eagle said:
It is actually likely to return to pitch more easily BUT it will have less resistance to going flat during double stop bends. The best for that is parallel with the strings.
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So best to make it Flush ?
something like this is the ideal position ?

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Stone said:
So best to make it Flush ?
something like this is the ideal position ?

View attachment 21699
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Yes but I would not set up a strat that way . I would set a strat two post like a six screw. I go for the front of the baseplate as close as possible without touching anything and the G with about a tone of up pull. This style of two post is designed for the saddle to set the action. You can setup like this (the picture) and it will give the most resistance to going flat but you will have to deal with the saddle screws.
 
Eagle said:
Yes but I would not set up a strat that way . I would set a strat two post like a six screw. I go for the front of the baseplate as close as possible without touching anything and the G with about a tone of up pull. This style of two post is designed for the saddle to set the action. You can setup like this (the picture) and it will give the most resistance to going flat but you will have to deal with the saddle screws.
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Ahhh i see thank you so much Andy for your valued input and advice

:beer
 
BahamaDada said:
What does that mean?

Capo in 3rd fret and then measure the fretted note at the 15th fret?
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Intonation should be fretted notes with the hand same as playing. Tune the guitar fretting it one string at a time at the third fret. Then intonate the 15th. If when you tune at the third fret the open string is then out you have an issue with the nut.
 
I'm a bit dumb today... so just as usual I tune my guitar, but instead of fretting fret 12 I hold fret 3 and 15?
 
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