Amp GAS - High Gain Choices and Watts

[Aelred]

I’m thinking about getting a high(er) gain amp, something like a Bad Cat Hot Cat (45w) which I saw on sale at my local music store – about $300 off. A Jet Black (38w) is also on sale ($800 off) and is about the same price.

Funny thing is, when I click on Purchase/Place In Cart they both go back to non-sale prices.

But that got me wondering – since both use way more watts than I have so far (20w Black Cat, 15w Terrors) maybe I should just get a Rockerverb 50 MKIII head – if my 1x12 cab can support the weight – or an OR32 Stereo combo.

Other options are a Friedman PT-20, Revv G20, or PRS DGTY-15 head.

I’ll give them a call in the next day or two to arrange repairs on old/cooked amps, a couple of trade-ins and see what the story is with the fluctuating prices on the Bad Cats.

Option paralysis… Hot Cat combo or Rockerverb head… are they too much watts?

Or suggest some more options to further befuddle me.

 

[spawnofthesith]

I like the rockerverb idea

 

[sleewell]

If they are at your local store you should go play them first just to hear them in person.


Higher wattage isn't really a big deal on higher gain amps since they all tend to have master volumes.

 

[laxu]

You can use a 100W amp without issue as long as it has a well executed master volume. So don't look at the power too much - IMO more than you need is better than not enough. I generally find I prefer the sound and response of amps that are at least 30W.

 

[nightlight]

I'd just say that in my experience, I did not like EL34 amps. That's the only reason I didn't try the Mark V:35 after the two Mark V:25s I owned.

Make sure that the amp has a master volume and you should be good.

The Rockerverb is a well regarded amp, and you may be able to find a used one for cheap as well.

 

[laxu]

I'd just say that in my experience, I did not like EL34 amps. That's the only reason I didn't try the Mark V:35 after the two Mark V:25s I owned.

Both of those use EL84s though...

There are a lot of EL84 amps that are basically "we wanted to make a lower power version of our big 6L6/EL34 amp" that end up being mediocre. That's not the fault of EL84s though, but the amp design.

E.g most Vox-based amps are EL84 and sound glorious.

 

[Life Eats Life]

Both of those use EL84s though...

There are a lot of EL84 amps that are basically "we wanted to make a lower power version of our big 6L6/EL34 amp" that end up being mediocre. That's not the fault of EL84s though, but the amp design.

E.g most Vox-based amps are EL84 and sound glorious.

It’s tricky overloading 84’s.
The only way I can tolerate 84’s is (4) in the power section

 

[nightlight]

Both of those use EL84s though...

There are a lot of EL84 amps that are basically "we wanted to make a lower power version of our big 6L6/EL34 amp" that end up being mediocre. That's not the fault of EL84s though, but the amp design.

E.g most Vox-based amps are EL84 and sound glorious.

That’s what I said. I sold the Mark V:25 both times and haven’t looked back.

The Mark V:25 isn’t a bad amp, and as some videos demonstrate, the tone is pretty much like the Mark V:90. But I guess I just like big iron and larger power tubes.

I had a PRS MT-15 that used 6L6s, that was great. Also had a Victory Kraken with the same tubes I think, and it wasn’t bad. The Archon 25 I currently own uses 5881s and I kept it because it sounds bigger than its size.

Wish the Mark V:25 had gone the same route.

 

[laxu]

That’s what I said. I sold the Mark V:25 both times and haven’t looked back.

The Mark V:25 isn’t a bad amp, and as some videos demonstrate, the tone is pretty much like the Mark V:90. But I guess I just like big iron and larger power tubes.

I had a PRS MT-15 that used 6L6s, that was great. Also had a Victory Kraken with the same tubes I think, and it wasn’t bad. The Archon 25 I currently own uses 5881s and I kept it because it sounds bigger than its size.

Wish the Mark V:25 had gone the same route.

I don't think it's the powertubes, but maybe the others have bigger transformers etc? I believe the PRS at least does.

 

[nightlight]

I don't think it's the powertubes, but maybe the others have bigger transformers etc? I believe the PRS at least does.

Could be, could be! I haven't tried a tonne of EL84 amps, pretty much just the Mark V:25. But I've read a lot of negative comments about small bottle tubes on various forums, so basing my opinion on those as much as my own experience.

 

[Elric]

Could be, could be! I haven't tried a tonne of EL84 amps, pretty much just the Mark V:25. But I've read a lot of negative comments about small bottle tubes on various forums, so basing my opinion on those as much as my own experience.

That's a common complaint, but I think a lot of that criticism is likely unfairly placed on the tube type. It is probably more difficult overall to execute a lower wattage, small bottle based, design that compares well to a point of reference that is a higher wattage version of the same, using bigger tubes and transformers, etc.

But a lot of people walk away from that with 'EL-84s suck'.

 

[Count_Drugula]

That's a common complaint, but I think a lot of that criticism is likely unfairly placed on the tube type. It is probably more difficult overall to execute a lower wattage, small bottle based, design that compares well to a point of reference that is a higher wattage version of the same, using bigger tubes and transformers, etc.

But a lot of people walk away from that with 'EL-84s suck'.

I'm done with EL84 amps personally, they always seem to be missing that low mid punch I love. Only exception was the OR15 I had, that thing had a good amount of low mids for a 15w EL84 amp. I just prefer EL34, 6L6. KT88's from my experience.

 

[Elric]

I'm done with EL84 amps personally, they always seem to be missing that low mid punch I love. Only exception was the OR15 I had, that thing had a good amount of low mids for a 15w EL84 amp. I just prefer EL34, 6L6. KT88's from my experience.

Or maybe you just like higher wattage amps and are blaming the EL-84s. Shrug. It's all good.

I guess a lot of folks feel like the Friedman 20W amps are extremely good EL-84 amps that don't suffer what some attribute as draw backs of EL-84s. Never played one but have GASsed some for them...

I do think the Orange 'terror' 15W EL-84 platform is pretty good, too, based on the Brent Hinds Terror I have. My understanding is that the terror amps and the OR-15 all share that back end.

 

[HomespunEffects]

I'm done with EL84 amps personally, they always seem to be missing that low mid punch I love. Only exception was the OR15 I had, that thing had a good amount of low mids for a 15w EL84 amp. I just prefer EL34, 6L6. KT88's from my experience.

I have a PRS HDRX 20. It has 5881s in the power section. It’s worth checking out but for high gain I’d check the Soldano Astro 20.

 

[Aelred]

For reference, I currently have a Bad Cat Black Cat, Orange Rocker 15 Terror, Orange Dark Terror (Orange 1x12), Marshall DSL5C, Vox AC10C and a Yamaha THR10.

Maybe I have too many EL84 amps already! But I seem to gravitate to Voxy/Orange for no reason I know.

A Mesa California Tweed is available. A distinct lack of Marshall heads in town atm...and the JVM205C is 2x12...

1st world issue, I know. Thanks for the input!

 

[likitlikeyoulikeit]

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Laney L5

 

[Aelred]

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Laney L5

It is a pity that there are none in town and none available to order through my local store.

Availability is a real issue in a small city in Australia. It's a similar story for Friedman, Tone King, Marshall (very limited) - but I can get a Revv G20, D40 or 100R. I hope my Marshall 1911 1x12 cab would suit (or carry the weight of a 100w head).

Thank you for the suggestion.

 

[Whizzinby]

That's a common complaint, but I think a lot of that criticism is likely unfairly placed on the tube type. It is probably more difficult overall to execute a lower wattage, small bottle based, design that compares well to a point of reference that is a higher wattage version of the same, using bigger tubes and transformers, etc.

But a lot of people walk away from that with 'EL-84s suck'.

I think this is largely it. It’s not an EL84 problem, it’s the fact that there is no substitute for headroom. And most of these companies are doing lower watt amps to meet price points and are probably making concessions elsewhere that matter more than the tubes.

I’ve personally found that I don’t mind smaller watt amps at all for gained up tones, it’s clean tones that completely fall apart.

 

[Aelred]

I seem to be just wanting some extra gain options on my Black Cat for some heavier tones for some of my guitars. My Strat loves it, my ESP LTD with Fluence pickups wants more, dammit!

The Rocker 15 has a very neutral Clean channel that “needs” pedals, the Dark Terror has extra Gain my ESP adores but no Clean…

So I sort of see the Black Cat as a Rocker 15 upgrade and the Hot Cat (or Rockerverb or Revv) as a Dark Terror upgrade with a great clean channel.

But maybe the issue is headroom, and I need a good 4x12 and a Rockerverb or Revv or Marshall 100.

Floor/room space is more of an issue for me. I could get a Hot Cat 1x12 Extension cab as well as the combo to sit on top of it.

 

[Aelred]

I may just try an extension cab for the Black Cat - what is that, a quarter-stack? A 1x12 combo on top of a 1x12 cab? - and rely on pedals for any extra gain needed.

My Terrors can go in stereo with the 2 1x12 cabs I already have, neither of which can stack properly with the Black Cat. Space issue resolved.