YouTube amp reviews

[Adam1]

Hi. I’m really tired of a phenomenon that has dogged me as a player over the years. It goes like this: I hear some guy playing a particular amplifier on YouTube. it sounds really good so I buy one. I get it home and I can’t begin to explore the tones that these guys get because at any meaningful volume, the amp is just too darn loud. I mean even at 1/2 it’s just ridiculously over loud for home use. As these players aren’t being filmed in Studio 2 of Abbey Road, and appear to be in a normal sized room, the quality of sound is often so good, I’m completely bemused over the distance between the sound I’m able to get and what I can hear in the YouTube clip.

I’m assuming that the amp is being driven hard to get these excellent tones. I’m no rookie, having been a player for 40 years. I suspect that some of the responses I receive will allude to an attenuator, but the players never mention their inclusion in the demos.

Any thoughts or suggestions welcome.

 

[Orvillain]

For me, quite a bit of it really comes down to accepting some amount of loud volume - yes, even at home.

When I did this:


I was pretty loud. Children could not be in the room, but the neighbour had no real cause to complain. It's a balancing act for sure. You don't have to go full whack, but you do need to be able to move some air. There's just no substitute really.

Having said that... If it is completely impossible, then I'd just look at amp modelling and headphones.

Another solution if you don't want to use modelling is to use a loadbox. Like a Suhr Reactive Load. You can get one that allows you to load impulse responses into it - which are small audio files, that simulate a real guitar cab and speaker. You can buy these from the likes of York Audio or Ownhammer.

 

[AFKAEjay(retired)]

Attenuation is only the solution if you can’t get the same levels of breakup/od as the YT demo


You heard the amp on YT:

- into a cab you don’t have (9/10) IRs are used.
- recorded through a mic you don’t use
- through (fullrange) speakers you don’t use when you play the amp.

Miced/recorded sound is very different then what comes from an amp. Maybe that explains it?
If so, might be worth it to try a modeler.

 

[jellodog]

Most of the Youtubers use a reactive load box to demo tube amps in their sweet spots.

Others have a mic'd cab isolated in another room.

Only a handful mic up the amps that are sat next to them.

 

[Adam1]

For me, quite a bit of it really comes down to accepting some amount of loud volume - yes, even at home.

When I did this:


I was pretty loud. Children could not be in the room, but the neighbour had no real cause to complain. It's a balancing act for sure. You don't have to go full whack, but you do need to be able to move some air. There's just no substitute really.

Having said that... If it is completely impossible, then I'd just look at amp modelling and headphones.

Another solution if you don't want to use modelling is to use a loadbox. Like a Suhr Reactive Load. You can get one that allows you to load impulse responses into it - which are small audio files, that simulate a real guitar cab and speaker. You can buy these from the likes of York Audio or Ownhammer.

Thanks for sharing your insights and for offering support. Appreciate it

Most of the Youtubers use a reactive load box to demo tube amps in their sweet spots.

Others have a mic'd cab isolated in another room.

Only a handful mic up the amps that are sat next to them.

what’s the difference between an attenuator and a load box please?

 

[laxu]

The #1 issue with home playing is purely that you can't play loud enough. My experience is that you need about 85-90 dBA @ 1m volume levels for any amp to truly sound good through guitar speakers. Anything else is increasing levels of compromise.

Now, that's not absurdly loud, but it can be loud enough to bother others. I've ran my amps at those volumes when I lived in a top floor apartment but I had thick concrete walls and another guitarist living downstairs. Now I live on the first floor in a corner apartment so I only have neighbors above that could hear me, so I'm still able to play at moderate levels.

My ideal "hell yeah" volume levels would be closer to 90-95 dBA @ 1m. That's going to cause ear fatigue over time, but those sounds will really kick ass then. Past that...it will get painfully loud real quick unless it's a large space.

What you see on YT is often using reactive loads which let you turn the amp up loud and just record it through cab sims. Some have a cab miced in another room or in a closet. Others have a dedicated space e.g in a basement where they can run things loud, or live in the boonies where there's no neighbours being bothered.

But that doesn't mean with modern master volume amps you need all that.

I don't know if @Orvillain was using the Mesa Mark V output control in his video, but it looks like his master volume knobs (top middle knob on each channel) are at pretty low settings. If the output control is not used, that amp gets real loud real quick where 9 o'clock on the master is already in that 90 dB or more territory. WIth the output control enabled, it's much easier to control.

The only benefit to cranking the Mark V is that louder volume and what it does to how we hear things. It doesn't need it, it will still sound good at fairly low volumes. No attenuators needed, full 90W power.

 

[laxu]

what’s the difference between an attenuator and a load box please?

They are the same thing, except a loadbox converts your amp output signal down to line level so you can run it into cab sims.

An attenuator will convert some of the output to heat and feed the rest to the guitar speakers.

The actual design is pretty much the same on both. A network of heatsinked resistors and some inductive components (coils) on proper reactive loads.

Then finally there's a reamper which is a loadbox -> poweramp. This will do the job of an attenuator, but allow for continuous volume control instead of steps of attenuation. Fryette Power Station is the most popular example and is one of the best tools out there for having absolute control over your amp's volume.

I still don't necessarily recommend buying such a device, because a lot of modern master volume amps just don't need it. I found that e.g the Bogner Goldfinger I had only sounded worse when it was cranked too far. It became harsh and ratty sounding, it was built for preamp gain into at most a slightly overdriven poweramp.

My approach is to simply buy amps that can be adjusted down to volume levels you need, and will sound good at that level.

 

[Orvillain]

My experience is that you need about 85-90 dBA @ 1m volume levels for any amp to truly sound good through guitar speakers. Anything else is increasing levels of compromise.

I don't know if @Orvillain was using the Mesa Mark V output control in his video, but it looks like his master volume knobs (top middle knob on each channel) are at pretty low settings. If the output control is not used, that amp gets real loud real quick where 9 o'clock on the master is already in that 90 dB or more territory. WIth the output control enabled, it's much easier to control.

Funnily enough, I agree with you. 85-90dBA measured 1m away from the cab, is roughly where I think an amp starts to really punch. I can't vouch 100%, but this is where I typically aim for, and I'm probably at a similar level in the video.

Channel volumes are just below 9 o'clock, and the FX loop was enabled, giving me a proper master volume, which was at 12 o'clock. With these settings the amp is definitely cooking.

You're absolutely right, if I don't use the master volume control via the FX loop, then the amp is insanely loud for home use. But this is why I love it - the amp is so flexible, I can use it in any situation.

 

[laxu]

Funnily enough, I agree with you. 85-90dBA measured 1m away from the cab, is roughly where I think an amp starts to really punch. I can't vouch 100%, but this is where I typically aim for, and I'm probably at a similar level in the video.

Channel volumes are just below 9 o'clock, and the FX loop was enabled, giving me a proper master volume, which was at 12 o'clock. With these settings the amp is definitely cooking.

You're absolutely right, if I don't use the master volume control via the FX loop, then the amp is insanely loud for home use. But this is why I love it - the amp is so flexible, I can use it in any situation.

Yeah I think I run mine with the channel masters a bit higher, up to 10 o'clock but leave the output to about 10 o'clock as well. I don't know if this makes any real difference tho vs output higher and channel masters lower.

I tried to see how low I could turn it with the output and I think I got it down to something like 70 dBA @ 1m through the 1x12 combo speaker. It did take a lot of the fun out of it down at that volume, but it was still alright.

 

[Orvillain]

Yeah I think I run mine with the channel masters a bit higher, up to 10 o'clock but leave the output to about 10 o'clock as well. I don't know if this makes any real difference tho vs output higher and channel masters lower.

Probably a very minor tonal difference, but roundabout the same output levels, I would expect.

 

[Orvillain]

I definitely use too much gain though. Been playing guitar for almost 21 years, but I'm still such a n00b. It is a miracle that I can put two chords together.

 

[Orvillain]

btw, @Adam1 what amps have you tried?? What genres are you going for?

 

[[Nathan]]

I use a reactive load box (redseven amp central) to record videos, it’s too time constraining otherwise and I can’t really blast cabs at the volumes I’d want to while recording a video. If I had a proper studio or house in the middle of nowhere I’d mic up the cabs.

 

[SillyOctpuss]

I was in a scenario where I couldn't play loud a few years ago and I went through a bunch of small amps thinking I'd be able to get better tones at lower volumes. All of them were way too loud once I got them to the place where they were working properly.

In the end the only things that worked volume wise was a Boss Katana, which I didn't like the sound of and a HX stomp into studio monitors.

After moving back to N Ireland I bought a JVM and it was a bit of a revelation. I've been able to get better low volume tones out of a much larger amp than I ever did from any of the 15watt lunchbox heads I tried. Having gain, channel volume and master volume gives you much better control than any of the little amps I tried.

I can regularly play at a decent TV volume while my kids in bed and he never stirs. Then crank it when he's at school. Win win.

 

[Adam1]

They are the same thing, except a loadbox converts your amp output signal down to line level so you can run it into cab sims.

An attenuator will convert some of the output to heat and feed the rest to the guitar speakers.

The actual design is pretty much the same on both. A network of heatsinked resistors and some inductive components (coils) on proper reactive loads.

Then finally there's a reamper which is a loadbox -> poweramp. This will do the job of an attenuator, but allow for continuous volume control instead of steps of attenuation. Fryette Power Station is the most popular example and is one of the best tools out there for having absolute control over your amp's volume.

I still don't necessarily recommend buying such a device, because a lot of modern master volume amps just don't need it. I found that e.g the Bogner Goldfinger I had only sounded worse when it was cranked too far. It became harsh and ratty sounding, it was built for preamp gain into at most a slightly overdriven poweramp.

My approach is to simply buy amps that can be adjusted down to volume levels you need, and will sound good at that level.

Thanks a bunch for your input. You’re more than generous with your time.

 

[Orvillain]

I was in a scenario where I couldn't play loud a few years ago and I went through a bunch of small amps thinking I'd be able to get better tones at lower volumes. All of them were way too loud once I got them to the place where they were working properly.

In the end the only things that worked volume wise was a Boss Katana, which I didn't like the sound of and a HX stomp into studio monitors.

After moving back to N Ireland I bought a JVM and it was a bit of a revelation. I've been able to get better low volume tones out of a much larger amp than I ever did from any of the 15watt lunchbox heads I tried. Having gain, channel volume and master volume gives you much better control than any of the little amps I tried.

I can regularly play at a decent TV volume while my kids in bed and he never stirs. Then crank it when he's at school. Win win.

It's headroom in the power section, I'd say.

People love to do the inverse gloating elitist thing. Godddd you're suchh a loser for using a 100watt amp. But the truth is, modern 100watt amps (not 70's Plexi's !!) are the most versatile solution and will work in nearly all scenarios.

I really want a Revv Generator and a Mark VII now.

 

[ChordInversion]

As others pointed out so well, it's true that a YouTube demo can so frequently be dependent upon factors that aren't in play when you get an amp in front of you in your home. That can lead to a lot of confusion and dead ends.

When it comes to amps, volume, and how it all sounds, there are going to be as many right answers as there are players. It's also worth noting that volume has a 'sound' to it. Tonally speaking, quiet never sounds the same as loud. I know a guy who had been playing for around 20 years before he figured out that more than any one amp sounding better to him loud, he simply liked the sound of loud. It changed his approach to amp selection. Every amp I've ever bought has been bought with the expectation that I just plain cannot play it loud. I still have a big amp or two, but they're not tube amps.

Some MV tube amps of any size can be extremely satisfying for many players at low volume. But like so much else when it comes to music, it's a matter of preference.

I can find loud fun, but my ears tire of it really quickly. I can't play with a traditional "instruments provide all the volume" band or stand within 15 feet of a rock drummer without extremely effective earplugs. I'm fortunate that the sounds of pedals and modelers really do it for me. Everything tube lovers hate about those things ends up working for me. So pedals are too "harsh" and not "organic" enough? I totally get that they sound different. I just like the "harsh." I'll play a dirt box into a JC-22 and be thrilled. As a result, I can get sounds that are exactly what my music calls for at low volume or into headphones with no attenuator or reactive load. And demos are a lot easier for me to work with.

I use headphones a lot with hollow and semihollow guitars, because hearing the acoustic ringing of the strings always pulls me out of the moment, and it can take considerable volume to drown those strings out completely with some guitars.

 

[Adam1]

btw, @Adam1 what amps have you tried?? What genres are you going for?

Aw this has been going on throughout my entire playing career. I remember buying my first JCM when I was a kid and feeling decidedly underwhelmed by it, thinking I’d immediately sound like Jimmy Page . Then one night my band played in a big theatre. I was shocked by the amazing sound that it suddenly started making. My current amp is an Artist Tweed 20w.

 

[Adam1]

I definitely use too much gain though. Been playing guitar for almost 21 years, but I'm still such a n00b. It is a miracle that I can put two chords together.

 

[Adam1]

btw, @Adam1 what amps have you tried?? What genres are you going for?

Replied but this seems to have jumped into a different part of the thread?