Why wood matters... ?

[Eagle]

I just played a suhr the other day with obvious dead spots. My 200 euro jet guitars? Nothing like that, neither of them. I've come to think some of this is highly unpredictable, even if about wood.

How would you "get it right"?

You need to make sure the resonant frequencies in the neck and body are not dissonant. Preferably a least an octave apart and a sympathetic internal. Tyler manages this. On cheap guitars this is pure chance.
If you are dealing with known qualities say a maple bolt on neck and an alder body it’s realistic to know what the ballpark results will be for a particular blank. Maple used in necks is easy because the weight hardly varies. You will get to know that X weight body blank will work with Y weight neck.

 

[rocknrollshakeup]

This is pure moron stupid.

Well that’s like your opinion man, I thought the kid’s video was pretty brilliant and revealed lots of false beliefs.

 

[Eagle]

Well that’s like your opinion man, I thought the kid’s video was pretty brilliant and revealed lots of false beliefs.

It’s not my opinion it’s facts, physics, counting.
2+ 2 isn’t an opinion.

 

[Eagle]

Here is a diagram for the “wood doesn’t matter “ believers.

It will help you understand.

 

[dshea19]

It all matters, but in an electric guitar, body wood is far lower on the list than many would like to believe. I can pick up 5 of the same guitar and they all sound slightly different acoustically even though they are the same materials. Then hook up to an amp and the variances in pot values alone can make far larger impacts than what was acoustically present. Then we have strats made of cardboard, concrete, acrylic, etc, and they all sound like what is expected of strats. The materials used for the body have very slight differences that most people probably wouldn't hear if you blindfolded them. Taking a guitar out of a players hands and blindfolding them to see if they could tell the difference would be a startling revelation for most players. Your age, occupation (how much hearing damage), and natural individual variance in hearing ability is going to probably have a bigger impact than the body wood changes on an electric guitar. For an electric guitar, the body materials matter, but much less than is expected and the majority of people would never be able to pick up the difference blindfolded, and what can be possibly heard is probably at the point of splitting hairs. Changing pickups and speakers would be noticed by the most indifferent listeners. For the few people that enjoy the splitting of hairs, enjoy it. It is another layer of fun to have with your hobby/passion.

 

[Eagle]

It all matters, but in an electric guitar, body wood is far lower on the list than many would like to believe. I can pick up 5 of the same guitar and they all sound slightly different acoustically even though they are the same materials. Then hook up to an amp and the variances in pot values alone can make far larger impacts than what was acoustically present. Then we have strats made of cardboard, concrete, acrylic, etc, and they all sound like what is expected of strats. The materials used for the body have very slight differences that most people probably wouldn't hear if you blindfolded them. Taking a guitar out of a players hands and blindfolding them to see if they could tell the difference would be a startling revelation for most players. Your age, occupation (how much hearing damage), and natural individual variance in hearing ability is going to probably have a bigger impact than the body wood changes on an electric guitar. For an electric guitar, the body materials matter, but much less than is expected and the majority of people would never be able to pick up the difference blindfolded, and what can be possibly heard is probably at the point of splitting hairs. Changing pickups and speakers would be noticed by the most indifferent listeners. For the few people that enjoy the splitting of hairs, enjoy it. It is another layer of fun to have with your hobby/passion.

You are basically correct but if you are looking for something special it’s the magic last part of the equation. It is also the most common reason that a guitar doesn’t sustain properly, has dead or over lively notes. Doesn’t have good geometry, doesn’t have the relief in the right place , is unstable in various climates. An instrument with poor acoustic properties will never be good if you plug it in.

 

[dshea19]

You are basically correct but if you are looking for something special it’s the magic last part of the equation. It is also the most common reason that a guitar doesn’t sustain properly, has dead or over lively notes. Doesn’t have good geometry, doesn’t have the relief in the right place , is unstable in various climates. An instrument with poor acoustic properties will never be good if you plug it in.

That is why I brought up blindfolded without holding the instrument. Holding the guitar and playing it is, for me, the magic ingredient. How it feels, how it vibrates, how inspiring it is to play or how dead it feels. That stuff will have an impact in how a person can perceive the sound. I love acoustically alive guitars because they just feel so responsive. However, as long as the electronics are solid, I can generally get a guitar to sound the way I want with amp settings and effects. To enjoy the playing experience, I need to love the guitar itself.

 

[Eagle]

That is why I brought up blindfolded without holding the instrument. Holding the guitar and playing it is, for me, the magic ingredient. How it feels, how it vibrates, how inspiring it is to play or how dead it feels. That stuff will have an impact in how a person can perceive the sound. I love acoustically alive guitars because they just feel so responsive. However, as long as the electronics are solid, I can generally get a guitar to sound the way I want with amp settings and effects. To enjoy the playing experience, I need to love the guitar itself.

Yes but an acoustically dead instrument is dead plugged in.

 

[Dimiguitar]

Yes but an acoustically dead instrument is dead plugged in.

But by "acoustically dead" you don't mean stuff like acoustic volume, right? You're referring to other properties.

 

[Eagle]

But by "acoustically dead" you don't mean stuff like acoustic volume, right? You're referring to other properties.

It seriously affects sustain and the ability to ring an interval without oscillating.

 

[Dimiguitar]

It seriously affects sustain and the ability to ring an internal without oscillating.

More acoustic volume on an electric tends to rob sustain, right?

 

[DrewJD82]

I have a cutoff of where shit matters and shit doesn’t and it comes pretty well before this point. I played probably 50 guitars last week, from $250 Eart’s to $4500 Gibsons, there’s almost no rhyme or reason to it; that $250 Eart put some of the $1500+ guitars to absolute shame in the tone and craftsmanship department, at one point I said to myself “I’m a fucking dumbass if I spend more than $500 on a guitar these days” and that was right before I picked up a Squire Classic Vibe Tele that sounded more lively and felt better to play than the $2300 AVII Tele sitting right next to it.

I have no doubt that hand selecting every part of a guitar’s building will play a positive role in the overall guitar when it’s competed, but there are so many variables involved in this shit that you can have equal luck in picking up an outstanding standing sounding/playing guitar that came off an assembly line where no one gave a fuck about knocking on the body wood before building it.

 

[dshea19]

Yes but an acoustically dead instrument is dead plugged in.

Not necessarily. Acrylic guitars are not something people can pick out by ear. People don't tend to play them because of the extreme weight, not because they are dead. I have played dead guitars that were fine plugged in. They were not fun to play, but people listening couldn't tell a difference if I switched guitars. Some people would argue that an acoustically alive electric guitar is actually undesirable since the alive nature of the guitar is not as efficient as an electric guitar that doesn't have the extra vibrations depleting the energy going into the pickups. I don't know either way, but when listening to other players, I have no idea how alive their guitar is. I have played other players guitars that I thought were dogs and they sounded amazing on them.

The simple equation for me is finding the thing that inspires you and shutting out the noise. Frank Marino played SG's with singles that sounded as stratty as any other strat. If people didn't know he was playing an SG, they wouldn't be guessing SG when they heard him. He makes it work for him, which what players should really be shooting for more than anything else.

 

[Chocol8]

There is a theory that a guitar that vibrates more acoustically has LOWER sustain because the wood is absorbing energy.

A conflicting theory is that the wood vibration sends energy back into the strings and increases sustain.

TLDR: the first one is wrong.

It turns out, it is really easy to test these theories out on a Strat or other trem equiped guitar. If you set the same guitar up with the bridge floating, decked (down only trem), and with the trem blocked as in fixed with a couple wedges of wood, you can record and measure the sustain acoustically and plugged in.

The decked trem is a touch louder acoustically and sustains significantly longer than floating. The blocked trem MAY sustain even longer than the decked trem, but it depends on how you block it. This is a pretty easy and repeatable test if you have an interface and a DAW.

So yes, a guitar that is more “alive” acoustically will have some differences plugged in. Obviously, throw a lot of effects or gain on it and the differences get buried. Also, acoustic sustain doesn’t mean a thing if you are playing a lot of fast notes anyway.

 

[Eagle]

Not necessarily. Acrylic guitars are not something people can pick out by ear. People don't tend to play them because of the extreme weight, not because they are dead. I have played dead guitars that were fine plugged in. They were not fun to play, but people listening couldn't tell a difference if I switched guitars. Some people would argue that an acoustically alive electric guitar is actually undesirable since the alive nature of the guitar is not as efficient as an electric guitar that doesn't have the extra vibrations depleting the energy going into the pickups. I don't know either way, but when listening to other players, I have no idea how alive their guitar is. I have played other players guitars that I thought were dogs and they sounded amazing on them.

The simple equation for me is finding the thing that inspires you and shutting out the noise. Frank Marino played SG's with singles that sounded as stratty as any other strat. If people didn't know he was playing an SG, they wouldn't be guessing SG when they heard him. He makes it work for him, which what players should really be shooting for more than anything else.

They aren’t dead and they reflect the string energy back in to the string because that’s the path of least resistance.

 

[Eagle]

More acoustic volume on an electric tends to rob sustain, right?

You are right. Volume is not a desirable characteristic in an electric guitar played acoustically. But it must ring in a harmonious way and not sap the sustain.

 

[Eagle]

There is a theory that a guitar that vibrates more acoustically has LOWER sustain because the wood is absorbing energy.

A conflicting theory is that the wood vibration sends energy back into the strings and increases sustain.

TLDR: the first one is wrong.

It turns out, it is really easy to test these theories out on a Strat or other trem equiped guitar. If you set the same guitar up with the bridge floating, decked (down only trem), and with the trem blocked as in fixed with a couple wedges of wood, you can record and measure the sustain acoustically and plugged in.

The decked trem is a touch louder acoustically and sustains significantly longer than floating. The blocked trem MAY sustain even longer than the decked trem, but it depends on how you block it. This is a pretty easy and repeatable test if you have an interface and a DAW.

So yes, a guitar that is more “alive” acoustically will have some differences plugged in. Obviously, throw a lot of effects or gain on it and the differences get buried. Also, acoustic sustain doesn’t mean a thing if you are playing a lot of fast notes anyway.

Everything matters.

 

[Eagle]

I have a cutoff of where shit matters and shit doesn’t and it comes pretty well before this point. I played probably 50 guitars last week, from $250 Eart’s to $4500 Gibsons, there’s almost no rhyme or reason to it; that $250 Eart put some of the $1500+ guitars to absolute shame in the tone and craftsmanship department, at one point I said to myself “I’m a fucking dumbass if I spend more than $500 on a guitar these days” and that was right before I picked up a Squire Classic Vibe Tele that sounded more lively and felt better to play than the $2300 AVII Tele sitting right next to it.

I have no doubt that hand selecting every part of a guitar’s building will play a positive role in the overall guitar when it’s competed, but there are so many variables involved in this shit that you can have equal luck in picking up an outstanding standing sounding/playing guitar that came off an assembly line where no one gave a fuck about knocking on the body wood before building it.

With cnc machines this is more true than it was . If you get the opportunity to cherry pick from a large number and you know what to look for you can find bargains but because of hardware and pickups this is only true to a point.

 

[ghostrider]

I have a partscaster that I put together that is incredibly bright. I tried swapping pickups, saddles, necks, but it was always still super bright. Eventually, I just strummed it unplugged and compared it to my other similar guitars. It was acoustically much brighter than my others.

So, anecdotally, the body wood matters a lot.

Does that mean it always matters that much? Probably not, but it clearly can in some instances.

The forums constantly say things like, "The toanz are in the neck!" I've never personally experienced a difference by swapping necks around, but I wouldn't be surprised if it did make a big difference for someone similar to how my body did.

IMO, we try way to hard to declare some sort of binary truth about it and I don't think it works that way. YMMV.

 

[Sascha Franck]

IMO, we try way to hard to declare some sort of binary truth about it and I don't think it works that way.

It pretty much defenitely doesn't work that way. I have seen, heard and played guitars made of very unlikely material combinations sounding pretty traditional (such as a Trussard steel Tele with a mahogany neck that just sounded like an excellent Tele) and other guitars that refused to sound like they possibly should do (such as my G&L Legacy that doesn't deliver any traditional Strat tones, regardless of the pickups used).
In addition, I sort of often found some acoustic properties to translate well into the amplified realm - just to almost instantly find another example of where things simply didn't translate well at all, sometimes even more like the opposite.

I already said so in my first post in this thread: I absolutely believe that wood matters, but more often than we may like it, the ways in which it matters are pretty unpredictable.

Apart from all that, yes, there seem to be some tried and trusted wood and construction combinations delivering more or less reliable results.