Mongillo19
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A broken clock is right twice a day
What's preventing you from getting a Helix Stadium?
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Mongillo19
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Post in thread 'Line 6 Helix Stadium Talk' https://thegearforum.com/threads/line-6-helix-stadium-talk.10275/post-459979
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I was in a grump with it today for reasons I cannot fully divulge. But I've chilled out a bit now.
MirrorProfiles
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I’ve been a Line 6 user since the early 2000’s and it’s definitely been an up and down ride.
As it stands there isn’t a whole lot screaming “buy me” with the current products. Too few new amps, too many question marks (for me) over the modelling, not enough new sonically yet. Factor in the bugs and early teething issues and it’s really not something I need in the slightest.
I remember being annoyed years ago with Podfarm and how there was no clear way to upgrade. Products got properly abandoned in that era and not much really happened. A lot has improved since, but Metallurgy just felt so half assed and like the line 6 of old. Totally phoned in half assed products and then abandoned.
I can’t say things like showcase, hype, Z pre-post are things that fill me with confidence in what Line 6 are offering me, particularly when Agoura isn’t doing it for me yet.
I expected a home run, and even with my worst expectations, things are in worse position than I imagined. I went from being a dead cert day one buyer of whatever Line 6’s next plugin is, to just shifting my focus to what Fractal are now offering.
It’s a bummer because I really felt like Helix was just a few small tweaks away from being top of the pile, and now I’ve really lost a lot of interest. It’s all subject to change - it took me a long time to entertain the idea of Helix, and I was eventually won round.
As it stands there isn’t a whole lot screaming “buy me” with the current products. Too few new amps, too many question marks (for me) over the modelling, not enough new sonically yet. Factor in the bugs and early teething issues and it’s really not something I need in the slightest.
I remember being annoyed years ago with Podfarm and how there was no clear way to upgrade. Products got properly abandoned in that era and not much really happened. A lot has improved since, but Metallurgy just felt so half assed and like the line 6 of old. Totally phoned in half assed products and then abandoned.
I can’t say things like showcase, hype, Z pre-post are things that fill me with confidence in what Line 6 are offering me, particularly when Agoura isn’t doing it for me yet.
I expected a home run, and even with my worst expectations, things are in worse position than I imagined. I went from being a dead cert day one buyer of whatever Line 6’s next plugin is, to just shifting my focus to what Fractal are now offering.
It’s a bummer because I really felt like Helix was just a few small tweaks away from being top of the pile, and now I’ve really lost a lot of interest. It’s all subject to change - it took me a long time to entertain the idea of Helix, and I was eventually won round.
EOengineer
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I’m not going to dismiss any of those points, but you do really owe it to yourself to throw on the cans and plug in for a bit.
There’s an experiential element Stadium is delivering with Agoura that might be the neatest thing it brings to the table.
There’s an experiential element Stadium is delivering with Agoura that might be the neatest thing it brings to the table.
MirrorProfiles
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I’m sure it’s fun and satisfying to play, and I’d enjoy just mucking around on one. But ultimately, it doesn’t fill any need for me. I don’t like playing with headphones and never usually play that way. And spending the best part of £2k, and then having to deal with importing my own IR’s and dodgy wifi connections really doesn’t make it an attractive proposition.
If I’m looking for a fun and satisfying playing experience, I’ll just fire up a real amp. I personally don’t have an issue with how most platforms feel, although some do feel better than others. Fractal and NDSP feel better than say Amplitube or Nembrini but there’s a lot more to the overall experience that I’m after where I’ll just go to whatever scratches the itch. I’m sure for others, it’s a much higher priority and that’s perfectly valid.
Another reason I’m not looking to buy a stadium yet is it doesn’t really fill any gaps - my HX stomp is a nice little problem solver that can quickly give a missing effect at a moments notice. That was almost a no brainer because it offered something that really made sense. If I’m going to go for an “all in one” for a considerable sum of money, it needs to offer me way more that I don’t have access to already, and/or do something better than the rest. A stadium would just offer the same FX, at a higher price point and larger floor space. If I was blown away by the modelling and implementation of it, I’d put up with the size, cost and same fx and have at it. Hype, Z Pre-Post and showcase weren’t my idea of next gen modelling.
The QC mini, for instance, is more appealing - the choice of modelled amps is far more to my taste, I’d get a load of FX I don’t have access to, and the capturing platform is something I could support. It’s also smaller than the current stadium offerings and could do a similar role to what the HX stomp does (albeit probably not as well).
Sascha Franck
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I actually think there's been some weird design decisions made. Or rather weird priorities being set.
I mean, what is it with Showcase? To me it at least sort of seems to be adressing an issue that didn't exist to start with.
Now, will it be useful for some folks? Certainly. Will it even be useful for some people who thought they might never need such a thing? Likely. Will it possibly allow some folks to rethink certain workflows? Maybe that, too. So, that's all fine.
And yet, if you had a survey, I'd bet you'd find extremely little folks asking for something like that in their modelers.
What you hear people asking for is:
- Kickass new amp models. The Stadium seems to be only kinda there.
- Great effects. Nothing new at all in HX land. Sure, they may (or rather: will) come, but I really expected them to throw in at least one or the other thing at launch. I mean, this thing is in development since years and I can't believe there's no new FX pretty much ready to be released yet - but something as complexed as showcase is coming kinda full stop already.
- Great usability. That's where I think they nailed it at least pretty well - but then, there's still no mobile editor and no new HX Native. No, say, performance control page, either (and no global blocks - but, hey, I know that's just a personal pet peeve). All of which may add tremendous usability value for many people.
- Stunning stuff. Yes, the odd weirdo FX. Modulators. Synth sounds. Whatever. Some stuff setting it apart from the competition. Nothing to see there at all.
- Rock solid performance. This seems to be causing much more issues than back with the OG Helix. There's quite some people saying it's not ready for prime time yet.
But what we get is Showcase before any of that.
IMO, for the asking price, there's just too little of all the stuff that most people would like to see.
I mean, what is it with Showcase? To me it at least sort of seems to be adressing an issue that didn't exist to start with.
Now, will it be useful for some folks? Certainly. Will it even be useful for some people who thought they might never need such a thing? Likely. Will it possibly allow some folks to rethink certain workflows? Maybe that, too. So, that's all fine.
And yet, if you had a survey, I'd bet you'd find extremely little folks asking for something like that in their modelers.
What you hear people asking for is:
- Kickass new amp models. The Stadium seems to be only kinda there.
- Great effects. Nothing new at all in HX land. Sure, they may (or rather: will) come, but I really expected them to throw in at least one or the other thing at launch. I mean, this thing is in development since years and I can't believe there's no new FX pretty much ready to be released yet - but something as complexed as showcase is coming kinda full stop already.
- Great usability. That's where I think they nailed it at least pretty well - but then, there's still no mobile editor and no new HX Native. No, say, performance control page, either (and no global blocks - but, hey, I know that's just a personal pet peeve). All of which may add tremendous usability value for many people.
- Stunning stuff. Yes, the odd weirdo FX. Modulators. Synth sounds. Whatever. Some stuff setting it apart from the competition. Nothing to see there at all.
- Rock solid performance. This seems to be causing much more issues than back with the OG Helix. There's quite some people saying it's not ready for prime time yet.
But what we get is Showcase before any of that.
IMO, for the asking price, there's just too little of all the stuff that most people would like to see.
bucephalus
Roadie
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ian_dissonance
Shredder
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I really just need amps and effects and a lot of foot switching, so a lot of the cool stuff is lost on my use anyways. The log in to the device thing that seems to be necessary for some things isn’t an awesome idea IMO, either.
Boudoir Guitar
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"Hey Augora, dial me up a good chunky metal sound!"
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[Nathan]
Shredder
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Man the forum masses have really turned on stadium in the last couple of weeks 
Topic is a bit too big to type but I think ultimately a lot of this comes down to RRP, how much stuff a user has already, what the end goal of the user is (mixing, guitarist, gigging, home enthusiast) and a bunch of other things. It’s interesting to me that so many of us are the 0.0001% of people on a gear forum and you’d think we’d all have similar goals and needs from gear but pretty much every one of us is interested in different areas of a unit and has different expectations. There’s no right or wrong it’s all a personal weigh up of “Is this worth it to me”
I take all of that into consideration when people are overly bummed or overly excited about things. I mean heck even Im in a unique position doing videos. If I was just doing demos for my own amusement I’d probably have an audient and like 2 plugins (while secretly wishing I could have a room full of amps).
But anyway I’m ok with where stadium is at now. I knew it would be a bit upfront cost and a journey as bugs get fixed and more features come to it. I actually like having a unit and getting these big updates and getting that feeling that things are new over and over again, maybe that’s annoying to others but I like it. I’ll also buy an axe4 on launch and a qc2 for the same reasons.
Topic is a bit too big to type but I think ultimately a lot of this comes down to RRP, how much stuff a user has already, what the end goal of the user is (mixing, guitarist, gigging, home enthusiast) and a bunch of other things. It’s interesting to me that so many of us are the 0.0001% of people on a gear forum and you’d think we’d all have similar goals and needs from gear but pretty much every one of us is interested in different areas of a unit and has different expectations. There’s no right or wrong it’s all a personal weigh up of “Is this worth it to me”
I take all of that into consideration when people are overly bummed or overly excited about things. I mean heck even Im in a unique position doing videos. If I was just doing demos for my own amusement I’d probably have an audient and like 2 plugins (while secretly wishing I could have a room full of amps).
But anyway I’m ok with where stadium is at now. I knew it would be a bit upfront cost and a journey as bugs get fixed and more features come to it. I actually like having a unit and getting these big updates and getting that feeling that things are new over and over again, maybe that’s annoying to others but I like it. I’ll also buy an axe4 on launch and a qc2 for the same reasons.
Rogerdanielpaul
Newbie
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I had a pre order for non-xl but cancelled it. For the past 6 months I had grown really happy using helix native + other plugins and realized I do not want to be tied down with physical hardware and really like the freedom and flexibility of plugs in.
As long as it’s not priced too expensive I am planning on picking it up whenever it’s released.
As long as it’s not priced too expensive I am planning on picking it up whenever it’s released.
ian_dissonance
Shredder
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I’m expecting that from one of the off brands doing the Lekato/rebrand stuff, lol. Gotta watch an ad before the unit boots.
BenIfin
Shredder
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No rush or need - waiting for the inevitable Stadium Stomp and the inevitable Stadium Native
BenIfin
Shredder
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Man the forum masses have really turned on stadium in the last couple of weeks
Topic is a bit too big to type but I think ultimately a lot of this comes down to RRP, how much stuff a user has already, what the end goal of the user is (mixing, guitarist, gigging, home enthusiast) and a bunch of other things. It’s interesting to me that so many of us are the 0.0001% of people on a gear forum and you’d think we’d all have similar goals and needs from gear but pretty much every one of us is interested in different areas of a unit and has different expectations. There’s no right or wrong it’s all a personal weigh up of “Is this worth it to me”
I take all of that into consideration when people are overly bummed or overly excited about things. I mean heck even Im in a unique position doing videos. If I was just doing demos for my own amusement I’d probably have an audient and like 2 plugins (while secretly wishing I could have a room full of amps).
But anyway I’m ok with where stadium is at now. I knew it would be a bit upfront cost and a journey as bugs get fixed and more features come to it. I actually like having a unit and getting these big updates and getting that feeling that things are new over and over again, maybe that’s annoying to others but I like it. I’ll also buy an axe4 on launch and a qc2 for the same reasons.
%1000 Yep. Virtually %100 of all guitarists at all levels on the plant think TGP or TGF are acronyms for medial diseases.
So what has happened - lets look at some basic facts
- L6 pre-announce the Stadium
- they advise it is almost %100 a ground up new product and is a %100 new modeling engine with %100 no relationship to the og Helix
- they say it is a very long term platform like the og Helix
- openly saying it could well have an 8 - 10 year active lifecycle
- it gets released
What happens ?
Some early adopters shit the bed that is has bugs and expect it to have the maturity and stability of a 10 year developed Helix or 6-7 year developed Axe 3 ... and then shit-post on forums like TGP or TGF that L6 has somehow "done them wrong" or that's its a shit product.
Guess what - it has a functioning Headphone Jack from Day 1
<- a little joke that some of you will remember :) At this point in Stadiums life, if it were going to be a wise and mature 45 year old man, its probably a 2 month old baby ...... and even allowing for that, it already very, very useable.
Seriously, some people are just f*ck-knuckles .... its just that simple.
Fwhew .... rant over
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