What happened to the SmootHound Siva?

[Sascha Franck]

Even if HOTONE managed to screw something else up along the way. Which I don't doubt for a minute.

Well, what I remember from my rather brief testride was that the touchscreen isn't the most responsive thing there is, so in case there were no knobs to compliment it (such as on the Mini), I'd possibly give it a hard pass (not that I'd buy the bigger brother right now but they could become candidates for a certain kind of gig that I'm now abusing my old GT-10 (+IR loader) for because that's the unit I can afford leaving in the truck for weeks). But with the knobs, things were considerably fine, pretty intuitive as well (well, some path type changing operations weren't exactly obvious, but that's what a single look into the manual would've solved), so once you have some basic patches done, editing seems to be pretty much a pleasure.
Can't comment about much else regarding the Hotone (my plans are to give it a proper test one day, the last one happened quite accidentally), but when it comes to on-unit-editing, this is every bit up to the competition and I actually pretty much prefer it over the Stomp (just so that nobody gets me wrong: This statement is only about "raw" editing, nothing else).

With this SIVA thing however, for it to become even remotely an option, it'd at least need an editor. Which doesn't exist. And even in that case, at £989, it'd still be no option.

 

[DrewJD82]

As far as I'm concerned, no (as I have actually fooled around with the Ampero in a local shop).
I do have no experience with the Siva, though.

Apart from that, you don't always need to own a unit to come up with some conclusions. In fact, very often you don't, especially in case you're able to read a manual. Which I am. Or even just watch a video. Which my eyes still allow for as well.

Now I’m confused…..Ampero is Smoothhound?

 

[mbenigni]

To a degree, but there’s also QC owners and former owners who share the same gripes as the non-owners.

Sure, but if you're going to take my cheesy meme and get all serious...

Complaints about there only being one knob on the Siva aren't likely to be assuaged by a couple of weeks of hands-on experience. "Imagine my surprise when I put on my reading glasses and there were, in fact, 6 encoders!"

 

[Sascha Franck]

Now I’m confused…..Ampero is Smoothhound?

No, but the last postings were about Ampero vs. Siva.
Possibly didn't understand your posting properly.

However, if you think along the lines that nobody should complain about a unit he/she have never even tried - well, in this case it's rather obvious what this thing lacks of.
And as far as "you don't have any intentions on buying this anyways, so why complain?" goes:
a) guilty as charged.
But also:
b) "if you have no intentions of buying this anyway (do you? Or anyone else? Really?), why praise it?"

 

[laxu]

Now I’m confused…..Ampero is Smoothhound?

Nothing to do with each other, someone just brought it up.

When the guy showed off the Siva on TGP, I said it was a prototype device that he's trying to push commercially. While it's impressive for one person's work, it's still exactly that.

I don't understand why he went with that control scheme either, you'd notice that it doesn't work very well pretty quickly. Maybe that's all the hardware allows, or something.

 

[Sascha Franck]

When the guy showed off the Siva on TGP, I said it was a prototype device that he's trying to push commercially. While it's impressive for one person's work, it's still exactly that.

The weird thing being that he's in fact selling this thing (no idea whether he even sold a single unit, my guess would be "no").
He's also selling some wireless transmitters, showing some quotes from his (apparent...) users, praising the system as if it was the greatest thing since sliced bread - and when you read up the specs, it's 8ms of latency - yuck (props to him for making that number public, though).

To me, all this is a strange story. I mean, yeah, I can appreciate this kinda "FFS, let me just do it!" thing, but in case he's not an experienced player himself (he very clearly isn't, given his own demo videos), he defenitely should've asked some guys actually using these kinda things regularly before starting to assemble units intended to be sold.

 

[Lysander]

Oh, is that all?

I never said it wasn't but the overall point is that the A2S is still pretty much like a single-knob UI with a touchscreen on top. If you ever used a computer with touchscreen mouse emulation, that's exactly how the Ampero 2 operates.

Now, this is a significant improvement (it spares you from a lot of manual scrolling and clicking) but claiming that there's "nothing to compare" between the two units is a bit preposterous, IMHO.

I never tried the SIVA, but the navigation looks more Helix-like than Ampero, where you have to manually click and select UI items before being able to edit them - it's a weird flow. Henning Pauly's review video for the A2S video showcased this well, and i found it to be true in my own limited experience, but admittedly i didn't do much more than tweaking a few amp and cab settings.

 

[SKU]

Oh, is that all?

I take your point about the Siva's use of its one encoder being straightforward, but the fact that it's the only mechanical controller on the entire unit is a liability on par with an April Fool's joke. And let's be clear: this is not a "simple device" as @SKU suggests above; it's a rather complex device exposing many virtual devices simultaneously. (Precisely the reason most comparable products have half a dozen physical controls or more.)

The Ampero's one main encoder is obviously meant to complement a touchscreen and the 3 additional encoders under the screen, so we're well in to apples and oranges territory. Even if HOTONE managed to screw something else up along the way. Which I don't doubt for a minute.

But anyway...

I take it as an Engineering joke. Kinda. It's how engineers fuck with each other
Hey bro ... heard you'd be interested in this cool, low latency, kinda innovative 1 man engineering marvel so I just went ahead and put only ONE (1) knob on it.

 

[Sascha Franck]

but the overall point is that the A2S is still pretty much like a single-knob UI with a touchscreen on top.

Seriously, what are you talking about here? That's just nonsense. What in the world do you think these are? To quote you again: Decoration?

These are crucial and just excellent when operating the Ampero. And in case all you wanted is modifying an existing patch, you'd likely never need anything else but the touch screen and these three (!!!) knobs (plus the arrow keys on the screen once there's more than 3 parameters, but the most important ones always seem to be placed on page one).

Calling this is single-knob UI - I mean, I'm seriously WTF?!?-ing.

 

[mbenigni]

I never said it wasn't but the overall point is that the A2S is still pretty much like a single-knob UI with a touchscreen on top. If you ever used a computer with touchscreen mouse emulation, that's exactly how the Ampero 2 operates.

Now, this is a significant improvement (it spares you from a lot of manual scrolling and clicking) but claiming that there's "nothing to compare" between the two units is a bit preposterous, IMHO.

I never tried the SIVA, but the navigation looks more Helix-like than Ampero, where you have to manually click and select UI items before being able to edit them - it's a weird flow. Henning Pauly's review video for the A2S video showcased this well, and i found it to be true in my own limited experience, but admittedly i didn't do much more than tweaking a few amp and cab settings.

I'm not sure, but I feel like you're focusing too much on the matter of whether this UI is effective in allowing the user to select any given parameter, whereas the real problem is that it only allows for editing of one parameter at a time, with a grueling process of selecting each parameter as needed in between.

As opposed to the typical solution (e.g. Ampero's) of exposing multiple, logically grouped parameters simultaneously, and allowing all of them to be edited with independent (physical) control elements (e.g. additional encoders or touchscreen.)

Too many words to say the same thing: one knob to control n devices, each of which has > 1 knob IRL, just seems crazy to me.

 

[SKU]

Being the antitrend, primitive man I am I got very interested in this device when it launched. Disappointing no development was done on it ...
Would buy this thing much faster than something like Hoetone

 

[Lysander]

As opposed to the typical solution (e.g. Ampero's) of exposing multiple, logically grouped parameters simultaneously, and allowing all of them to be edited with independent (physical) control elements (e.g. additional encoders or touchscreen.)

Yeah, but there's still an extra click (or screen tap) required to bring items into focus before you can edit them. See also Pauly's review at the ~20:00 mark for a quick example:



It might seem like nitpicking, but there's effectively an extra step required on every menu navigation, which is exactly how you'd do it if this were a screen with a mouse. Contrast this with f.ex. Helix, where selecting a menu item immediately drops you in the following submenu.

 

[Lysander]

Being the antitrend, primitive man I am I got very interested in this device when it launched. Disappointing no development was done on it ...

I REALLY want to hear more clips for the SIVA, and had zero success in finding any

 

[SKU]

I REALLY want to hear more clips for the SIVA, and had zero success in finding any

Smooth Hound Innovations

Listen to Smooth Hound Innovations | SoundCloud is an audio platform that lets you listen to what you love and share the sounds you create.

soundcloud.com

Here's what I found. Note that the oldest two clips are from the hardware ( SIVA ) and the newest two from the SIVA model plugins.
They also sell the plugins. You'll never achieve the supposed 0.9ms latency on a computer though.
Thinking about it I might get one or two of their plugins and run them through a power amp.

 

[mbenigni]

Yeah, but there's still an extra click (or screen tap) required to bring items into focus before you can edit them. See also Pauly's review at the ~20:00 mark for a quick example:



It might seem like nitpicking, but there's effectively an extra step required on every menu navigation, which is exactly how you'd do it if this were a screen with a mouse. Contrast this with f.ex. Helix, where selecting a menu item immediately drops you in the following submenu.

I didn't see exactly what you were referring to (and I have a pretty short attention span with videos like this one) but I don't doubt HOTONE managed to do an imperfect job of their own.

I don't mean to get too far into the weeds defending Ampero's UI, or anyone else's. My very, very simple point regarding Siva is that one encoder on a multi-effects unit is too few. Laughably so.

I've personally never heard an audio clip of Siva that piqued my interest, either. The main strength everyone likes to cite is an extremely low latency... which is great, but which often implies tradeoffs in modeling accuracy. (And now I'm proving @DrewJD82's point about shitposting re: gear I know nothing about LOL.)

 

[Achilles]

Serious question: What exactly is cool with that?

I was watching the video and when it came to that part something in my brain triggered me to think "that's cool!"
Simple as that.

 

[laxu]

Yeah, but there's still an extra click (or screen tap) required to bring items into focus before you can edit them. See also Pauly's review at the ~20:00 mark for a quick example:



It might seem like nitpicking, but there's effectively an extra step required on every menu navigation, which is exactly how you'd do it if this were a screen with a mouse. Contrast this with f.ex. Helix, where selecting a menu item immediately drops you in the following submenu.

Doesn't that only matter if you want to use the value wheel?

And is there an extra step? Because to me it seems it selects the model where his finger landed, or he can scroll the view with his finger? I just don't quite see the issue here.

 

[Lysander]

Doesn't that only matter if you want to use the value wheel?

The touchscreen does the same thing. Admittedly, it's way less jarring when you use your fingers, but the entire A2S workflow is kinda weird that way.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Yeah, but there's still an extra click (or screen tap) required to bring items into focus before you can edit them.

When you are in patch mode and click a block on the grid, the parameters associated with that block are instantly exposed on the 3 knobs below the screen, no extra clicks required.
I'd go as far as to say that this very procedure covers around 90% of all editing you might do on the unit itself. Anything else is largely "homework" and the editor is a better tool to realize things.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Would buy this thing much faster than something like Hoetone

Why exactly? And yes, I'm genuinely curious. What exactly peaked your interest? There's barely any sound clips, let alone decent ones, the website is looking like a shady business, the 8ms of latency you get from his wireless system aren't exactly a great "buy Smoothound!" ad, either. So what else is it?