What happened to the SmootHound Siva?

[Sascha Franck]

Love the way the navigation knob controls the virtual knobs on-screen.
Actually very cool.

Serious question: What exactly is cool with that?

 

[Sascha Franck]

The Ampero II Stage has a similar navigation input

Whut?
There's *nothing* to compare between the two devices regarding operation.

 

[Lysander]

There's *nothing* to compare between the two devices regarding operation.

Check any video for the A2S, it's the same paradigm - select item in screen, then adjust.

The difference is, of course, that the Ampero has a touchscreen, so you don't need to manually scroll through items, but the point-and-click behavior is still there. You can see UX items selected for edit highighted with a bounding box, even if you tap on them.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Check any video for the A2S, it's the same paradigm - select item in screen, then adjust.

Dude, I am absolutely sorry (and I really mean it), but you're giving me a hard time, really. And also absolutely no personal offense meant. But I have to say it: Fortunately, you aren't responsible for any UI development on any devices I may ever own. Because you really don't seem to know what you're talking about.

The difference is, of course, that the Ampero has a touchscreen, so you don't need to manually scroll through items, but the point-and-click behavior is still there.

No, you couldn't be further away from reality.

First off: "Pointing" with a dial is *not* pointing. It's scrolling. This might not be too much of an issue in case the parameters are next to each other. But it becomes a major issue once there's a bunch of parameters between them. And it's defenitely not pointing at all anymore.

Then: You need to press the knob to switch between selecting and adjusting mode. That's an extra step you need to perform *all* the time. Again something not required when there's a touchscreen to select.

And finally, the biggest omission in your "observation": On the Ampero, the most relevant parameters of whatever block are instantly routed to the encoders below the screen. That's such a fundamental difference I don't even know how you could even start comparing the two.
Let's assume we have a typical drive/amp block. The two most interconnected things that you'd rather like to see as close to each other as possible would be gain and level. With the Ampero, you just grab them. With the Siva, it is:
- Scroll to amp block
- Press to select
- Scroll to gain parameter
- Press to select
- Adjust gain
- Press dial to exit adjusting mode
- Scroll to level (doesn't even seem to be next on any of the blocks featuring gain and volume, basically drive pedals and amps)
- Press dial to enter adjusting mode
- Adjust level
- Rinse and repeat.

Even just typing out that procedure hurts already!

(And fwiw, this is also why editing on an HX Stomp sucks compared to the big brother, because you need to page around when adjusting drive and level, but at least there's direct page switches.)

All this will be similar for reverbs and delays. You typically want to adjust decay/feedback and mix quickly. Same thing, they seem to be on the same page on the Ampero, mind numbing scrolling required on the Siva.

Seriously, there's no way to even start comparing the two. It's not even apples to oranges. It's apples to alien space ships.

 

[SKU]

Dude, I am absolutely sorry (and I really mean it), but you're giving me a hard time, really. And also absolutely no personal offense meant. But I have to say it: Fortunately, you aren't responsible for any UI development on any devices I may ever own. Because you really don't seem to know what you're talking about.



No, you couldn't be further away from reality.

First off: "Pointing" with a dial is *not* pointing. It's scrolling. This might not be too much of an issue in case the parameters are next to each other. But it becomes a major issue once there's a bunch of parameters between them. And it's defenitely not pointing at all anymore.

Then: You need to press the knob to switch between selecting and adjusting mode. That's an extra step you need to perform *all* the time. Again something not required when there's a touchscreen to select.

And finally, the biggest omission in your "observation": On the Ampero, the most relevant parameters of whatever block are instantly routed to the encoders below the screen. That's such a fundamental difference I don't even know how you could even start comparing the two.
Let's assume we have a typical drive/amp block. The two most interconnected things that you'd rather like to see as close to each other as possible would be gain and level. With the Ampero, you just grab them. With the Siva, it is:
- Scroll to amp block
- Press to select
- Scroll to gain parameter
- Press to select
- Adjust gain
- Press dial to exit adjusting mode
- Scroll to level (doesn't even seem to be next on any of the blocks featuring gain and volume, basically drive pedals and amps)
- Press dial to enter adjusting mode
- Adjust level
- Rinse and repeat.

Even just typing out that procedure hurts already!

(And fwiw, this is also why editing on an HX Stomp sucks compared to the big brother, because you need to page around when adjusting drive and level, but at least there's direct page switches.)

All this will be similar for reverbs and delays. You typically want to adjust decay/feedback and mix quickly. Same thing, they seem to be on the same page on the Ampero, mind numbing scrolling required on the Siva.

Seriously, there's no way to even start comparing the two. It's not even apples to oranges. It's apples to alien space ships.

Bro! BROOOO! It’s just less convenient. How much do you need to edit such a simple device?

 

[SKU]

The guy probably thought guitarists are normal people who adjust once to taste and they then they use the thing. Set and forget. I.e. program the device, like it used to be called.

 

[Sascha Franck]

How much do you need to edit such a simple device?

No idea about you, but I edit gain and level all the time. Regardless whether it's for live or home jamming/recording purposes.

Set and forget.

This is not how guitar amps work.

 

[SKU]

No idea about you, but I edit gain

Use your guitar volume pot.

and level all the time. Regardless whether it's for live or home jamming/recording purposes.

Now that you mention it ... where's the volume pot on this device Now that is a big omission.

This is not how guitar amps work.

It's not a an amp. It's an inaccurate digitalz attempt at simulating the real thing. They all are.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Use your guitar volume pot.

Not the same.

Now that you mention it ... where's the volume pot on this device Now that is a big omission.

As is everything.

It's not a an amp. It's an inaccurate digitalz attempt at simulating the real thing. They all are.

Think whatever you want, but once you go digital, you could at least take advance of what digital has to offer. This device doesn't.

 

[Lysander]

Because you really don't seem to know what you're talking about.

Huh. Have you even touched an A2S? Because i have This thing...

...is not there for decoration.

(...)

Then: You need to press the knob to switch between selecting and adjusting mode. That's an extra step you need to perform *all* the time. Again something not required when there's a touchscreen to select.

(...)

So, you definitely haven't. The answer is no, that is certainly not always the case - it's specially noticeable on stacked menus, where you need to scroll to highlight, click/tap to select focus, and then edit the given item. Which you do with the joystick, unless it's one of the three amp/FX settings on display.

What the touchscreen gives you is the ability to select screen items without scrolling a cursor, but the underlying paradigm is otherwise the exact same. You can actually see the focus cursor jumping below your finger, exactly as if you used the joystick.

THAT PART of the A2S UX is functionally identical to the SIVA, so i don't get where the "pfff, nothing to compare" attitude comes from. And, from what i've gathered so far, the SIVA even handles it better.

EDIT: Gah, i pointed the same out a ~month ago on a different thread: https://thegearforum.com/threads/hotone-ampero-ii-stage-mp-380.3311/post-196912 .

 

[Sascha Franck]

...is not there for decoration.

Ok. So I gather these:

... are for decoration.

The answer is no, that is certainly not always the case

I haven't said it's always the case. In the most relevant situations it is.
And on the polar opposite site, on the Siva you ALWAYS have to go through these hoops, regardless of the simplicity of the operation you plan to execute.

but the underlying paradigm is otherwise the exact same.

Well, you could say this for *any* device then. Select then adjust. Oh wow, how similar! I guess the same is valid for the Helix Floor then. Absolutely comparable to the Siva.

so i don't get where the "pfff, nothing to compare" attitude comes from.

Because pretty much anything you're comparing here is completely invalid.

Doesn't mean the Ampero couldn't be vastly improved (pretty much all devices could be), but comparing the Siva and the Ampero in terms of UI is making absolutely no sense at all.

 

[Lysander]

 

[Sascha Franck]

Glad to see we reached an agreement.

 

[DrewJD82]

Is this a TGP thread where one person has actual experience with a unit, another has none but is speaking as if they do, and another has absolutely zero interest in the unit and is only here to shit on it and the digital world?

 

[Sascha Franck]

Is this a TGP thread where one person has actual experience with a unit, another has none but is speaking as if they do, and another has absolutely zero interest in the unit and is only here to shit on it and the digital world?

As far as I'm concerned, no (as I have actually fooled around with the Ampero in a local shop).
I do have no experience with the Siva, though.

Apart from that, you don't always need to own a unit to come up with some conclusions. In fact, very often you don't, especially in case you're able to read a manual. Which I am. Or even just watch a video. Which my eyes still allow for as well.

 

[[Nathan]]

The guy probably thought guitarists are normal people

 

[mbenigni]

The difference is, of course, that the Ampero has a touchscreen, so you don't need to manually scroll through items...

Oh, is that all?

I take your point about the Siva's use of its one encoder being straightforward, but the fact that it's the only mechanical controller on the entire unit is a liability on par with an April Fool's joke. And let's be clear: this is not a "simple device" as @SKU suggests above; it's a rather complex device exposing many virtual devices simultaneously. (Precisely the reason most comparable products have half a dozen physical controls or more.)

The Ampero's one main encoder is obviously meant to complement a touchscreen and the 3 additional encoders under the screen, so we're well in to apples and oranges territory. Even if HOTONE managed to screw something else up along the way. Which I don't doubt for a minute.

But anyway...

 

[mbenigni]

Is this a TGP thread where one person has actual experience with a unit, another has none but is speaking as if they do, and another has absolutely zero interest in the unit and is only here to shit on it and the digital world?

Laughs in QC?

 

[Sascha Franck]

I take your point about the Siva's use of its one encoder being straightforward,

And as you've already sort of pointed out earlier: What could be *not* straightforward in case you only have one single push-encoder?

 

[DrewJD82]

Laughs in QC?

To a degree, but there’s also QC owners and former owners who share the same gripes as the non-owners.