What does your modeller do that your "real" rig can't do?

[ian_dissonance]

Pros:

• Playing at almost any volume with mostly the same tones. There's still a lot of magic left to happen at reasonable volumes but with a modeler we're talking about that last 10% of missing experience, while with some amp rigs you are happy to get even the first 10% at low volume. This is a huge element for me as I play every day at home with headphones or through monitors but only get to crank it up for real a few times a month.
• Ability to try out amps and effects and setups that I would never be able to afford or experience in my life. I've learned so much from experimenting with modeled gear that I will likely never be in the same timezone with in my life.
• (Mostly) no noise, hum, ground loops, dozens of contacts and cables just waiting to go bad.
• No need for a whole bunch of boring but neccessary and expensive support items like buffers, DI boxes, switching system, noise gates, power supplies, attenuators, load boxes, etc. Getting just that part right easily adds up to the modeler price, if not more.
• Getting a good modeler means you can be pretty sure that the model of Amp X or Pedal Y is the best it can be: either a faithful representation of the original or a high quality piece in its own right. You can safely say goodbye to the intrusive thoughts of needing to upgrade your cheap Klon copy because you think there might be just a little bit more magic in the real deal.
• Less space and weight to deal with in some cases. I'm playing through a power amp and a cab anyway so it's only marginally more convenient to lug around an Axe-Fx rather than a tube head.
• Perhaps obviously, presets and scenes and snapshots or whatever they want to call the settings recall. This can be a double edged sword for sure, but the alternative is the hell of trying to match up your rig settings to just about do what you want overall and then fearing any later change will screw over all the rest of the tones.

Cons:

• The modelling stuff doesn't have long term (financial) value while the real deal is often a pretty good investment. This leads to a lot of uncertainty and doubt within the modeller crowd. I've bought my Axe-Fx only recently and I fully expect to lose at least half of what I bought it for when the IV drops. I'm fine with that, but I understand why people are apprehensive of just plain losing that kind of money on a hobby.
• The modelling stuff is simply not that cool. Only the most nerdy of the crusty old guitar nerds will get excited about your cab block high and low cuts, while a slightly more attractive set of dudes will get excited about your real pedalboard.

Sometimes I feel like I’m the only one that never even considers the resale value of a piece of gear.

 

[la szum]

Haha! Oh man, I didn't see your 2112 Tit post to Met's Tat post until now. Funny stuff!

 

[Sascha Franck]

Sometimes I feel like I’m the only one that never even considers the resale value of a piece of gear.

Rest assured, I also never do. I buy stuff when I need or want it, before that I check whether it's worth the asking price for me and that was it.
There's also not even remotely as much of an active 2nd hand market over here.

 

[FrankyFire]

Not the same thing at all, that just allows e.g putting the noise gate in the fx loop of your high gain amp, and using the plain guitar signal as the key input - which will trigger the noise gate more reliably than using a heavily distorted, amplified signal.

Maybe that was a wrong translation: What I mean is exactly what you're searching for. It has a common 4 cable method, another Input (which I called key Input) for external on/off switching or Audio based Ducking and an output to switch an Amp channel for example. You can read the manual, they're specifically mentioning ducking from a bass drum for example. But It will work for your use case too.

 

[laxu]

Maybe that was a wrong translation: What I mean is exactly what you're searching for. It has a common 4 cable method, another Input (which I called key Input) for external on/off switching or Audio based Ducking and an output to switch an Amp channel for example. You can read the manual, they're specifically mentioning ducking from a bass drum for example. But It will work for your use case too.

I think it doesn't have any control over how quickly the gate opens and closes though, which is important for ducking. The bass drum example is basically that you want your gate to open/close in sync with the bass drum.

 

[FrankyFire]

I think it doesn't have any control over how quickly the gate opens and closes though, which is important for ducking. The bass drum example is basically that you want your gate to open/close in sync with the bass drum.

Exactly, that's the downside. You can select "Hard" and "Soft", but I only ever found soft usable. Only threshold can be adjusted.
So it is possible, but you lack options that would probably make this enjoyable.

Your use case is so niche, that I would expect that there never will be a pedal that does this exactly. That's definitely where digital solutions shine.

Only one I could think of is the Polyend Endless. But is that still a "Pedal"? In the end it is a digital modeller (with latency) of some kind too.

 

[Alex Kenivel]

Only the most nerdy of the crusty old guitar nerds will get excited about your cab block high and low cuts, while a slightly more attractive set of dudes will get excited about your real pedalboard.

 

[laxu]

Your use case is so niche, that I would expect that there never will be a pedal that does this exactly. That's definitely where digital solutions shine.

I'd say it's more like "people don't know what ducking is and why it could be beneficial for them" so it has never become much more than a niche feature.

 

[FrankyFire]

I'd say it's more like "people don't know what ducking is and why it could be beneficial for them" so it has never become much more than a niche feature.

True,
But even if, it is still niche in people applying it. Maybe not in live situations, have to ask my Sound guy band colleague. Maybe FoH people do it without us on stage noticing.

 

[Stone]

Well One thing is for sure my modeler has nullified any sort of gear GAS.

 

[Sascha Franck]

I'd say it's more like "people don't know what ducking is and why it could be beneficial for them" so it has never become much more than a niche feature.

Absolutely!
And as said, once we change "ducking" to "modified by input level", that opens up for yet some more things.

For example: Guitar Rig has that kinda stuff since many years already. Now, the amps in earlier versions often felt pretty un-dynamic. Wouldn't clean up well and the volume changes going along if there was some clean up would feel kinda weird.
But you could just use input level to modulate both gain and output level to make the amps feel *much* better.

 

[Tenebris]

get on the same airplane as me and be virtually guaranteed intact when I get there

 

[Joshual-L]

Fractal modifiers !

Envelope followers on the amp controls are godsend to bring jack the feel of a real amp.

 

[mbenigni]

Modelers can generally get a lot more done for less money and with less hassle. When we're done (legitimately) splitting hairs about tone and feel, most modelers will offer...

1. Much more variety in terms of amps and effects.
2. An integrated, sophisticated control scheme (footswitches, presets, scenes, freely assignable expression inputs, MIDI...)
3. USB audio and MIDI for integration with DAWs, etc.
3. Enough I/O and routing options to support vocal processing or accompanying instruments.
4. Good cabinet simulation, allowing amp sims to be sent to full range or guitar cabs (or both!), making #3 even more viable/ important.
5. More stuff I'll think of in 2 seconds.

It takes a really, really nice tube amp to make me even consider giving all of this up... and then I probably can't afford that tube amp LOL.

 

[burningyen]

Here's my list:

• transport my entire rig (modeler, expression pedals, cables, IEMs) in a single rolling case that weights under 30 pounds
• add in an effect into the signal chain wherever I want it during rehearsal when I forgot about needing / wanting it beforehand
• control multiple effects on / off and change amp settings simultaneously with a single footswitch press
• optimize entire rigs for each guitar and save the settings for quick recall
• instantaneous switching between acoustic and electric tones with a single foot switch when playing my PRS P22

Some of these things could technically be done in the analog realm if you had enough money to buy the MIDI switchers and had racks and racks of gear, but that is stuff I don't have.

My list is mostly this. I sometimes toggle or cycle through some drastic settings changes on a split-second or note-by-note basis. Technically doable with a MIDI+analog rig, but so much easier with a Helix Floor.

I also love footswitching not just between acoustic and electric tones but also between pickups and tunings with my Variax transplants.

Finally, I believe what I'm hearing through my current rigs is a lot closer to what the audience is hearing than was the case with my old pedalboard+amp rig.

 

[Jarick]

So many benefits to modelers but here's my top list:

1. Silent / headphone volume
2. Pretty much any amp/cab/effect I could ever want
3. Instantaneous complex switching on the fly
4. Expanded functionality for free through updates
5. No need for a power supply
6. No need for patch cables
7. No need for MIDI cables/switching
8. No need for a pedalboard
9. No need to rebuild everything for a different layout
10. Lower cost than collecting even the core gear

 

[metropolis_4]

1. Much more variety in terms of amps and effects.

I kind of disagree with this one. You only have what’s in the box. Compared to literally everything that’s not in that box.

I was just playing an EAE Citadel into the 6v6 side of a /13 JRT and a JHS Notadumble clean channel as a preamp into an AC30 power section with an OBNE Bathing delay. None of that exists in a modeler.

Not to say I couldn’t find something that sounds and works similar in a digital modeler, but in terms of sheer variety…

 

[djd100]

It currently allows a Marshall JVM 410H, a dual mic'd Marshall 4X12 with GB's, and a automated FX Rack to fit in the trunk of a Corvette with three soft cased Les Pauls, plus three guitar stands, all of which allows relatively local gigs to be arrived at in style, and via a smaller carbon footprint than the 3/4 ton van the real stuff requires .

 

[mbenigni]

I kind of disagree with this one. You only have what’s in the box. Compared to literally everything that’s not in that box.

I was just playing an EAE Citadel into the 6v6 side of a /13 JRT and a JHS Notadumble clean channel as a preamp into an AC30 power section with an OBNE Bathing delay. None of that exists in a modeler.

Not to say I couldn’t find something that sounds and works similar in a digital modeler, but in terms of sheer variety…

I meant versus one real amplifier. And of course there’s always budget and load in/ load out to consider.

And either way, throw capturing into the equation and my point holds. :)

 

[sleewell]

Modelers made me realize firing up tubes to practice and write at home wasn't necessary

sending a signal to an amp on stage and a separate XLR to FOH is cool

Cuts down on tap dancing, can change lots of stuff with one click. Yes i know switchers can do this w pedals but that just makes a big board even bigger w more cables and more fail points.

Putting a riff on a loop and then being able to try lots of different options. The ability to quickly hear lots of different sounds