What’s your unpopular guitar take?

[Eagle]

What am I missing here, this is literally 3 people (vaguely) agreeing with each other…… “it’s not QC”

No the build is deliberately bad

 

[spawnofthesith]

No the build is deliberately bad

Hey if it works

 

[Sleezy E]

DIGITAL MODELERS MADE TOOBZ OBSELETE OVER A DECADE AGO

 

[Eagle]

Hey if it works

I said that in my original post.

 

[Jarick]

I agree with this one. I'm still using my OG THR 10c as a poor many "FRFR", and it works okay, but it's been 13 years. Admittedly it's not an easy problem to solve--something small and quiet but that sounds big and loud, except quietly. And I love stereo when I'm just playing with nothing else going on, so it would really need separate speakers. And I'd like it to be inexpensive. :)

EXACTLY! What I'm envisioning is a box that is a stereo power amp feeding a pair of small-ish speakers (maybe 6" or so?) in a halfway decent cabinet. Not a cheap plastic box, no tweeters, just like two little solid state combo amps but have the speakers voiced to be closer to a proper guitar speaker. Controls are simple, volume and maybe a tone knob or EQ? You should be able to plug in any modeler and disable the cab and it should sound like a low volume version of a proper guitar cabinet.

I don't think I've seen anything close to that before. The Yamaha THR is kind of the concept but they aren't really guitar speakers and it's overall small and underpowered for that use.

 

[laxu]

EXACTLY! What I'm envisioning is a box that is a stereo power amp feeding a pair of small-ish speakers (maybe 6" or so?) in a halfway decent cabinet. Not a cheap plastic box, no tweeters, just like two little solid state combo amps but have the speakers voiced to be closer to a proper guitar speaker. Controls are simple, volume and maybe a tone knob or EQ? You should be able to plug in any modeler and disable the cab and it should sound like a low volume version of a proper guitar cabinet.

I don't think I've seen anything close to that before. The Yamaha THR is kind of the concept but they aren't really guitar speakers and it's overall small and underpowered for that use.

So basically a solid-state stereo amp feeding a pair of very small guitar speakers?

The problem with that is that there are almost no 6" guitar speakers on the market. Even 8" is iffy, and IMO 10" is where you start to find actually good sounding ones.

Other than space saving, is there any reason why it has to be small? I was just playing my stereo BluGuitar Amp 1 rig through two BluGuitar 1x12 cabs and it sounded nice even turned down to very low volumes, and I think a big part of that is the design of those BluGuitar speakers.

There's just not a lot of speakers that are designed to work well at low volume, so something like the new Celestion Peacemaker paired with a solid-state poweramp might be a more appropriate setup for what you are looking for, if size is not a major concern.

 

[[Nathan]]

You are right to like your modeler, amp, pedal, or guitar - even if I tried them and hated them.

X, Y, and Z may or may not matter when it comes to how a guitar sounds. I see no value in debating it one way or the other. None of it changes the fact that you don't know how the guitar sounds until you plug it in and play it. Then you decide whether you like it or not.

Something that I’ve highly appreciated recently is watching players “do their thing” on a rig they use day to day or tour with and just sound perfect for what they do. So many people dunk on the quad cortex but I hear modern metal tones out of it from people in the scene and it’s like, yep…. That’s their sound it works perfectly.

The hardcore or thrash metal scene seem to favour a caveman 5150 tube amp setup and that also works perfectly.

So many combos of digital and analog gear, playstyles/genres, tunings, 7 and 8 string, guitarists personal preferences for whatever reason. I’ve been liking just sitting back and going, heh that’s rig they landed on, sweet.

 

[Jarick]

So basically a solid-state stereo amp feeding a pair of very small guitar speakers?

The problem with that is that there are almost no 6" guitar speakers on the market. Even 8" is iffy, and IMO 10" is where you start to find actually good sounding ones.

Other than space saving, is there any reason why it has to be small? I was just playing my stereo BluGuitar Amp 1 rig through two BluGuitar 1x12 cabs and it sounded nice even turned down to very low volumes, and I think a big part of that is the design of those BluGuitar speakers.

There's just not a lot of speakers that are designed to work well at low volume, so something like the new Celestion Peacemaker paired with a solid-state poweramp might be a more appropriate setup for what you are looking for, if size is not a major concern.

We’re talking exclusively low volumes so large speakers aren’t needed to move lots of air. Not a 2x12 with a 500 watt amp that you run with the volume on 0.01 at home.

Peacemakers isn’t needed because you aren’t attenuating anything. Class D amp works great here.

That’s why I’m saying it’s underserved…yes I could DIY something but that’s not the point. I think a ton of guitarists would love something like this. In between studio monitors and a guitar cab, not a lot of space to take up, and not a massive volume issue.

Like a better THR without the amp modeling.

You could run preamp pedals, modelers, maybe even the line out of a loaded down amp. No need for IRs.

 

[laxu]

We’re talking exclusively low volumes so large speakers aren’t needed to move lots of air. Not a 2x12 with a 500 watt amp that you run with the volume on 0.01 at home.

Peacemakers isn’t needed because you aren’t attenuating anything. Class D amp works great here.

That’s why I’m saying it’s underserved…yes I could DIY something but that’s not the point. I think a ton of guitarists would love something like this. In between studio monitors and a guitar cab, not a lot of space to take up, and not a massive volume issue.

Like a better THR without the amp modeling.

You could run preamp pedals, modelers, maybe even the line out of a loaded down amp. No need for IRs.

I explained why this is not so straightforward: lack of good sounding small guitar speakers. That's why my idea was to use a larger speaker that is designed to work fine for low volume use.

If you instead aim to use cab simulation on your modeler, it gets easier to have the kind of product you are thinking of.

I've actually used one of those Marshall Acton Bluetooth speakers with a modeler, and that worked very much like the kind of product you were thinking. It did not get very loud with a Strymon Iridium, I feel like it could use more volume reserve. But certainly good enough for home.

 

[Jarick]

I explained why this is not so straightforward: lack of good sounding small guitar speakers. That's why my idea was to use a larger speaker that is designed to work fine for low volume use.

If you instead aim to use cab simulation on your modeler, it gets easier to have the kind of product you are thinking of.

I've actually used one of those Marshall Acton Bluetooth speakers with a modeler, and that worked very much like the kind of product you were thinking. It did not get very loud with a Strymon Iridium, I feel like it could use more volume reserve. But certainly good enough for home.

And that's why it's underserved! Celestion or someone should make a 6.5" guitar speaker that isn't a toy.

Genelec makes studio monitors that are flat to 60 Hz or so with 5" speakers, and headphones can put out tons of bass with 1.5" drivers. It's about volume and tuning. For home use you don't need massive speakers to put out decent low end, and it's guitar anyway that doesn't need rumbling sub-bass.

The Roland JC-22 is REALLY close to being this as it's a stereo amp with two 6.5" speakers. But their preamps are horribly noisy.

And if you look at this size comparison of the Roland JC amps:

JC-22 (6.5" speakers) - 13" x 18" x 9" and 26 pounds
JC-40 (10" speakers) - 17" x 23" x 10" and 35 pounds
JC-120 (12" speakers) - 24" x 30" x 11" and 62 pounds

And the biggest Yamaha THR:
THR30 (3.5" speakers) - 8" x 16" x 6" and 9 pounds

Big opportunity there in between.

I don't think the price should be too high either...8" V-Types are $75 retail and class D amps are pretty cheap. I think someone could make one for $500-600 pretty easily.

 

[laxu]

I don't think the price should be too high either...8" V-Types are $75 retail and class D amps are pretty cheap. I think someone could make one for $500-600 pretty easily.

But are there enough people who would buy one at that price?

I get the appeal but don't think I'd buy one. Stereo is not that big a deal for me, and like I said I can turn my BluGuitar cabs down to a whisper and they still sound good.

If it has to use cab sims, I'd rather buy a pair of studio monitors since those are more multi-purpose.

 

[JiveTurkey]

No one wants to play guitar through 6" speakers. Come on guys

 

[Jarick]

No one wants to play guitar through 6" speakers. Come on guys

Tons of people are playing through 5" studio monitors today. And tons of guitarists don't want to deal with IR's. Why not a small stereo guitar amp?

I'm telling you, it would be a killer idea for home use. Hell, Bad Cat made something similar (but it has a tube preamp and IR tech) for $800. Unfortunately short lived due to Covid.

 

[DrewJD82]

Something that I’ve highly appreciated recently is watching players “do their thing” on a rig they use day to day or tour with and just sound perfect for what they do. So many people dunk on the quad cortex but I hear modern metal tones out of it from people in the scene and it’s like, yep…. That’s their sound it works perfectly.

The hardcore or thrash metal scene seem to favour a caveman 5150 tube amp setup and that also works perfectly.

So many combos of digital and analog gear, playstyles/genres, tunings, 7 and 8 string, guitarists personal preferences for whatever reason. I’ve been liking just sitting back and going, heh that’s rig they landed on, sweet.

FWIW, it’s not the QC itself that gets dunked on but the people who make it.

Outside of a couple omissions in functionality and effects, the only issue I personally have with the QC is the reliability factor as there were a good 3 years where units were getting sent back to NDSP for repairs very, very frequently, with some people having done it more than once. It seems they’ve gotten a handle on that mostly and it’s only 1-2 a week you see on the socials, opposed to the 5-10 you’d see during that time frame.

“Don’t worry, customer service is great and they’ll ship it back in a week” became the new “It suits my needs and I like the form factor”

Totally understandable why people love using them!

 

[FuzzyAce]

No one wants to play guitar through 6" speakers. Come on guys

Coupled with some EL84s = tone heaven.

 

[JiveTurkey]

Coupled with some EL84s = tone heaven.

insert eunuch gif here

 

[FuzzyAce]

insert eunuch gif here

 

[JiveTurkey]

TBF; I like playing guitar through 5-6" studio monitors. Guitar speakers that size? No thank you. Whether I'm wrong or right on that.

 

[Jarick]

TBF; I like playing guitar through 5-6" studio monitors. Guitar speakers that size? No thank you. Whether I'm wrong or right on that.

The problem is most small guitar speakers are cheap and made to be loud rather than sounding like 12" speakers, so they sound small and thin.

Resonant frequencies:

Celestion 12" Vintage 30 = 75 Hz
Celestion 10" V-Type Jr = 90 Hz
Celestion 8" 8-15 = 120 Hz

You can voice small speakers to be deeper though, here are small pro audio woofers:

Celestion 8" CF0820MB = 50 Hz
Celestion 6" TF0615 = 104 Hz

The latter was used in the ZT Lunchbox amps.

I think there's something here but would take a bit of R&D. But a lot of the materials should be available.

 

[FuzzyAce]

TBF; I like playing guitar through 5-6" studio monitors. Guitar speakers that size? No thank you. Whether I'm wrong or right on that.

I like 8" more though. They record well with a mic. For heavy, distorted guitar, yeah... not ideal though.