Sascha Franck
Goatlord
- Messages
- 11,679
And fwiw, if all of these kick in at around 5ms latency (the GP-5 is around that, haven't measured my GP-50 yet), one would possibly try to stay away from using an internal FX loop anyway.
Valeton GP-50, GP-150 and GP-180
- Thread starter laxu
- Start date
All that matters in my opinion is the quality of the white box amp modeling. The major companies today investing in this tech are Fractal, Fender Tone Master Pro, Line 6 and the chinese Hotone, Valeton, Mooer, Nux.
I heard a comparison between GP50 and GP200: some amps are equal, others sound best on the GP200. GP50 is more of a compact NAM unit with the bonus of the same WHITE BOX Modeling amps from the GP200 but to keep cost down they must have used not a high fidelity ad converter
What makes GP200 good is the XLR out, fx loop, etc for 200 dollars (at least this is the price where i live). Only 5 nam slots for guitar pedal and 5 for amps. But it's not a surprise, in my opinion almost all hi gain amps sounds better on the Valeton compared to all Mooer models, regardless of GS1000 or GE250 Pro.
Cons of GP200: still above 3ms latency and no EVH Stealth or Bogner Uberschall or Revv. I must say their Mark III and Mark IV sounds quite decent though, better than Helix for sure, which is something you will only find there, no other brand dared to make a model of these Mesa amps with decent quality, something that with a good IR can sound good.
As for GP180 dont expect much, I believe they won't rewrite the code for the white box amp modeling amps, so it's going to be the same, just may have better quality due to the new audio chip which will process at 48khz instead of 44.1khz. But GP180 lacks XLR and fx loop so GP200 owners are not going to buy GP180 and GP150 in my opinion. Valeton is trying to build another userbase which may or not may work. The ideal path for Valeton was to release a GP250 with more DSP and more NAM slots plus 48khz while keeping XLR out, Fx loop and midi. Also on a side note bonus for Valeton for providing P10 TRS balanced out. You can get balanced stereo out from the P10 and XLR, to me that is the ideal for multi effect units.
If the Valeton/Hotone company is smart they will add 5 or 6 more amps in 2026, it's gonna boost sales because there are plenty of Gp200 owners and it's not only poor people who enjoy it, it's the best for metal of all digital modeling units other than Fractal. In the age of Youtube, adding amps and updates is a huge thing, they get attention from all types of youtubers, from the guys whose audience are mostly tube amps to channels dedicated to poor people who can only afford 350 max price range.
Headrush Prime: is pretty good but switching presets is not ideal for live, it has huge gap. The quality of the white box modeling is average except on a few models and Inmusic which now owns it indicated they will stop supporting the Headrush already, no more new amps or features, no more features. The Revalver which has lot of potential is likely to not receive major updates for their cabs and amp models. Such a shame, if Revalver received decent funding they would seriously compete with Fractal.
Headrush main advantage over all competition it's their clone tech; it can clone VST really well and integrate with IR or not, it can also clone NAM, has dual amp and effects are above average. You can run two clone amps one left one right with two different IR, has way more DSP than Helix for instance. On top of that you can clone a TS9 and use with your two cloned amps. The major drawback is that cloning real hardware is harder, it takes more tries to get it right. Cloning VST is smoother and results are better, you can tweak, for instance adding a NAM Neve pre amp into a already good Marshall capture so you dont have to run two nam captures or whatever. You can mix VST plugin with NAM and make a good tweaked amp. Push 5150 from Bogren digital with a good EQ + a nam capture of a good pre amp + nam BBE exciter or any other IR from a studio rack, some people like the "warmth" of compressors which people have created IRs for it. The file result is usually good.
I forgot Boss, they but unfortunately even their amazing GT1000 and Gx-100 has only 2 good amps for metal. The main selling point of Boss GX and GT1000 is the effects.
The metal community and the old guys who still want Van Halen and Guns n Roses tones are the main audience of Valeton. If Valeton is smart they could add a Marshall Jubilee, EVH stealth and other hi gain amps, it would boost their community even more now with the GP180 and G150 possibly costing 150 dollars or 130 if you buy from aliexpress.
Nux had so much potential with their new MG50 but they told me they don't plan to add much more amps, so it's the same old 23 amps of the past 5 years. Nux has good hardware, best AD converters for the price and best latency, but few amps compared to the competition. If I'm not mistaken only 1 bass amp, Valeton has 5 bass amps and they even have dedicated distortion and effects for bass. Nux is not going to update their amp models. The structure won't be changed, they will let "better HD hardware" improve it, it's a design flaw. They should rewrite the code. But they wont
In the next 3 years if Fender don't release a product in the 450~550 dollars range, the competition in the white box modeling world is going to be Valeton, Hotone and Fractal. With Boss, Zoom and Nux losing market share, not to mention Helix which is only popular in United States and they dont plan to improve their 11 year old amp models, so basically strictly speaking about the quality of amp models they cant compete with Fender, Fractal and I must say it cant compete with Valeton at this point as well.
Neural DSP abandomned their plans for releasing more and more white box modeling amps (which they promised on a blog post in 2024) to focus on captures and more effects. Bonus points for them to make fuzz pedals sound great and improving the sound quality, but dont expect hi quality white modeling Petrucci amps in plugin or in the unit. It's a shame really, Neural DSP came from the factory since day 1 with good white box modeling amp models, but all money spent on making those high quality amp models are abandoned. Instead of releasing 2 or 3 Mesa Boogie Mark models with the white box approach, they opted for captures. While it sounds good it has its limits. The technology for their plugins and integrate that machine into the CoreOS was their "game changer" but they simply decided to focus on other things.
In short: I believe adding amps and effects can put Valeton on advantage over Mooer, Nux, etc. If they simply release 1 or 2 updates per year, they will lose the opportunity to make the already GP200 popular even more popular.
I heard a comparison between GP50 and GP200: some amps are equal, others sound best on the GP200. GP50 is more of a compact NAM unit with the bonus of the same WHITE BOX Modeling amps from the GP200 but to keep cost down they must have used not a high fidelity ad converter
What makes GP200 good is the XLR out, fx loop, etc for 200 dollars (at least this is the price where i live). Only 5 nam slots for guitar pedal and 5 for amps. But it's not a surprise, in my opinion almost all hi gain amps sounds better on the Valeton compared to all Mooer models, regardless of GS1000 or GE250 Pro.
Cons of GP200: still above 3ms latency and no EVH Stealth or Bogner Uberschall or Revv. I must say their Mark III and Mark IV sounds quite decent though, better than Helix for sure, which is something you will only find there, no other brand dared to make a model of these Mesa amps with decent quality, something that with a good IR can sound good.
As for GP180 dont expect much, I believe they won't rewrite the code for the white box amp modeling amps, so it's going to be the same, just may have better quality due to the new audio chip which will process at 48khz instead of 44.1khz. But GP180 lacks XLR and fx loop so GP200 owners are not going to buy GP180 and GP150 in my opinion. Valeton is trying to build another userbase which may or not may work. The ideal path for Valeton was to release a GP250 with more DSP and more NAM slots plus 48khz while keeping XLR out, Fx loop and midi. Also on a side note bonus for Valeton for providing P10 TRS balanced out. You can get balanced stereo out from the P10 and XLR, to me that is the ideal for multi effect units.
If the Valeton/Hotone company is smart they will add 5 or 6 more amps in 2026, it's gonna boost sales because there are plenty of Gp200 owners and it's not only poor people who enjoy it, it's the best for metal of all digital modeling units other than Fractal. In the age of Youtube, adding amps and updates is a huge thing, they get attention from all types of youtubers, from the guys whose audience are mostly tube amps to channels dedicated to poor people who can only afford 350 max price range.
Headrush Prime: is pretty good but switching presets is not ideal for live, it has huge gap. The quality of the white box modeling is average except on a few models and Inmusic which now owns it indicated they will stop supporting the Headrush already, no more new amps or features, no more features. The Revalver which has lot of potential is likely to not receive major updates for their cabs and amp models. Such a shame, if Revalver received decent funding they would seriously compete with Fractal.
Headrush main advantage over all competition it's their clone tech; it can clone VST really well and integrate with IR or not, it can also clone NAM, has dual amp and effects are above average. You can run two clone amps one left one right with two different IR, has way more DSP than Helix for instance. On top of that you can clone a TS9 and use with your two cloned amps. The major drawback is that cloning real hardware is harder, it takes more tries to get it right. Cloning VST is smoother and results are better, you can tweak, for instance adding a NAM Neve pre amp into a already good Marshall capture so you dont have to run two nam captures or whatever. You can mix VST plugin with NAM and make a good tweaked amp. Push 5150 from Bogren digital with a good EQ + a nam capture of a good pre amp + nam BBE exciter or any other IR from a studio rack, some people like the "warmth" of compressors which people have created IRs for it. The file result is usually good.
I forgot Boss, they but unfortunately even their amazing GT1000 and Gx-100 has only 2 good amps for metal. The main selling point of Boss GX and GT1000 is the effects.
The metal community and the old guys who still want Van Halen and Guns n Roses tones are the main audience of Valeton. If Valeton is smart they could add a Marshall Jubilee, EVH stealth and other hi gain amps, it would boost their community even more now with the GP180 and G150 possibly costing 150 dollars or 130 if you buy from aliexpress.
Nux had so much potential with their new MG50 but they told me they don't plan to add much more amps, so it's the same old 23 amps of the past 5 years. Nux has good hardware, best AD converters for the price and best latency, but few amps compared to the competition. If I'm not mistaken only 1 bass amp, Valeton has 5 bass amps and they even have dedicated distortion and effects for bass. Nux is not going to update their amp models. The structure won't be changed, they will let "better HD hardware" improve it, it's a design flaw. They should rewrite the code. But they wont
In the next 3 years if Fender don't release a product in the 450~550 dollars range, the competition in the white box modeling world is going to be Valeton, Hotone and Fractal. With Boss, Zoom and Nux losing market share, not to mention Helix which is only popular in United States and they dont plan to improve their 11 year old amp models, so basically strictly speaking about the quality of amp models they cant compete with Fender, Fractal and I must say it cant compete with Valeton at this point as well.
Neural DSP abandomned their plans for releasing more and more white box modeling amps (which they promised on a blog post in 2024) to focus on captures and more effects. Bonus points for them to make fuzz pedals sound great and improving the sound quality, but dont expect hi quality white modeling Petrucci amps in plugin or in the unit. It's a shame really, Neural DSP came from the factory since day 1 with good white box modeling amp models, but all money spent on making those high quality amp models are abandoned. Instead of releasing 2 or 3 Mesa Boogie Mark models with the white box approach, they opted for captures. While it sounds good it has its limits. The technology for their plugins and integrate that machine into the CoreOS was their "game changer" but they simply decided to focus on other things.
In short: I believe adding amps and effects can put Valeton on advantage over Mooer, Nux, etc. If they simply release 1 or 2 updates per year, they will lose the opportunity to make the already GP200 popular even more popular.
Last edited:
Sascha Franck
Goatlord
- Messages
- 11,679
Fwiw, I just learned that the NUX MG 30 can load both a converted NAM capture *and* a user IR. At just 2ms RTL. Quite amazing - I really wish the GP units would be like that.
The nam conversion of Nux is inferior, things might change with the new NAM A2, it might encourage Nux to improve it but as of today Mooer and Nux conversion is to be desired. But yeah Nux has the best latency of all multi effect units, regardless of native amps por NAM
Sascha Franck
Goatlord
- Messages
- 11,679
According to Leo Gibson (and yes, I know how to rate his nulltest methods...) it's better than the GPs.
Chocol8
Rock Star
- Messages
- 3,277
FYI, when you post complete nonsense like this, everything else you say loses credibility.
You are absolutely incorrect because Helix Stadium uses the same engine as Helix, they dont update their amp models, this is a fact, they never improved the power amp simulation this is a fact and they dont plan to improve it. It's not like Fractal where they eventually go back to a model released 3 or 4 years ago and tweak it, or rewrite much of the code if necessary
I A/B their Panama and Mark IV (5150 and MEsa Mark IV) with Headrush, Mooer, Fractal III and Valeton. Helix simply sounds worse than them. Not to mention comparng to plugins like Bogren 5150 or ML Sound Roots. Helix is inferior to all of them in the two amps I mentioned. Also Soldano. And I can go on and on
bucephalus
Roadie
- Messages
- 910
Put the shovel down.
Chocol8
Rock Star
- Messages
- 3,277
It's one thing to say something stupid because you don't know, but when you get called out and you come back with more absurdly incorrect bull shit, your credibility is completely shot. Don't bother replyIng, you're not worth my time...or anyone's.
