Two Notes GENOME hardware, amateur product manager edition

[mikah912]

OK, so @Ross Davies is informally gathering input on what we'd like to see in a possible Two Notes GENOME hardware modeler.

The obvious starting point is their $269 Opus amp/cab modeling pedal. Maybe the platonic ideal is a GENOME-ized version of the Hotone Ampero II Stage. There, you'd need to add at a minimum:

• At least 5 footswitches/rotary encoders.
• A touchscreen
• Probably two SHARC ADSP-21469 chips to power the NAM loading, AI amp modeling and also the color UI for the touchscreen.
• Full 1/4 inch and combo XLR jacks to beef up the I/O
• Partnerships with a brand name in the effects world to go beyond the basic b-tch suite of STUDIO-branded effects that Two Notes currently offer. Maybe somebody like Earthquaker Devices, Walrus Audio or Meris.

If they could offer all of that in a moderate-sized, Ampero II-esque form factor for say $1099-1299, would y'all buy it?

 

[jellodog]

Here's my want:

Even if the NAM amp block is mono, the rest of the signal chain after the amp should be stereo.

 

[2dor]

I think there are already successful products on the market that could be a source of inspiration. As far as the UI/form-factor, the Quad Cortex is probably the better unit out there so that's maybe a lead worth pursuing.

Things I'd love to see in no particular order from a potential Genome modeller:
- a Bluetooth management app
- powered unit (optional maybe) with a Class D amp a la Kemper; that would really be a great thing to have (power a cab)
- TSM-Ai amp models built in (with the ability to defeat either Pre or Power amp sections)
- multiple signal paths a la QC (at least 2)
- Metronome (hahaha)
- stable pitch / capo

 

[laxu]

Probably two SHARC ADSP-21469 chips to power the NAM loading, AI amp modeling and also the color UI for the touchscreen.

The Hotone Ampero 2 Stomp uses a faster ADSP-21573, and the 21469 is only a few bucks cheaper. About $21 vs $18 / 1000 units.

The Hotone also interestingly puts a separate MIMX ARM chip on it, probably to run the UI. Not sure why they went for this solution, maybe they crunched the numbers and found it more cost effective.

The Clone block on the Hotone already eats about 32% of its DSP when added to an empty preset. By comparison Hotone's "HQ" amp models eat about 19%, and "non-HQ" models only 8%.

So expecting NAM to eat more DSP than the Clone block, it might be more cost effective to go to one of the faster dual core chips at ~$29-30 / 1000 units rather than juggling a dual chip solution with all the latency etc issues it might have. ADSP-21593 or 21594 maybe? Double the clock speed for about 40-50% more cost.

The A2 Stomp is pretty perfect in terms of form factor. The only things I'd change is a bigger (wider?) touchscreen, a 4th encoder knob under the screen and move the expression jack somewhere else where it's not the rightmost jack on the unit. I've plugged my guitar into that jack so many times by accident...

 

[GTR37]

Please power by USB-C
If a next Gen unit comes out with a USB A printer cable slot I am going to scream

 

[laxu]

I don't think complex signal paths are that important, but I'd still love to see e.g the ability to put delay/reverb in parallel. It could be all mono until you are past the cab block, stereo after that.

I don't care if effects are "name brand" or something generic made by the developer. All that matters is they sound good.

Just no god damn "just edit it with your phone!" stuff. I can't think of much less inspiring way to work with guitar gear.

 

[TheTrueZoltan!]

SPDIF

 

[GTR37]

The Hotone Ampero 2 Stomp uses a faster ADSP-21573, and the 21469 is only a few bucks cheaper. About $21 vs $18 / 1000 units.

The Hotone also interestingly puts a separate MIMX ARM chip on it, probably to run the UI. Not sure why they went for this solution, maybe they crunched the numbers and found it more cost effective.

The Clone block on the Hotone already eats about 32% of its DSP when added to an empty preset. By comparison Hotone's "HQ" amp models eat about 19%, and "non-HQ" models only 8%.

So expecting NAM to eat more DSP than the Clone block, it might be more cost effective to go to one of the faster dual core chips at ~$29-30 / 1000 units rather than juggling a dual chip solution with all the latency etc issues it might have. ADSP-21593 or 21594 maybe? Double the clock speed for about 40-50% more cost.

The A2 Stomp is pretty perfect in terms of form factor. The only things I'd change is a bigger (wider?) touchscreen, a 4th encoder knob under the screen and move the expression jack somewhere else where it's not the rightmost jack on the unit. I've plugged my guitar into that jack so many times by accident...

The Hotone Ampero 2 Stomp uses a faster ADSP-21573, and the 21469 is only a few bucks cheaper. About $21 vs $18 / 1000 units.

The Hotone also interestingly puts a separate MIMX ARM chip on it, probably to run the UI. Not sure why they went for this solution, maybe they crunched the numbers and found it more cost effective.

The Clone block on the Hotone already eats about 32% of its DSP when added to an empty preset. By comparison Hotone's "HQ" amp models eat about 19%, and "non-HQ" models only 8%.

So expecting NAM to eat more DSP than the Clone block, it might be more cost effective to go to one of the faster dual core chips at ~$29-30 / 1000 units rather than juggling a dual chip solution with all the latency etc issues it might have. ADSP-21593 or 21594 maybe? Double the clock speed for about 40-50% more cost.

The A2 Stomp is pretty perfect in terms of form factor. The only things I'd change is a bigger (wider?) touchscreen, a 4th encoder knob under the screen and move the expression jack somewhere else where it's not the rightmost jack on the unit. I've plugged my guitar into that jack so many times by accident...

That would work say 5 encoders until an 8’screen
4 foot switches like the VP4
We almost need mock ups

 

[Ross Davies]

Thanks guys, This is all really great information and I am logging this down now! I have specifically noted a mono amp and cab block. Is this shared by everyone here?

 

[laxu]

That would work say 5 encoders until an 8’screen
4 foot switches like the VP4
We almost need mock ups

7" on the QC already feels like it's a bit bigger than is needed.

The 4" on my Ampero 2 Stomp is a bit small but ok, I think the 5" touchscreen on the Ampero 2 Stage is very good. But you can't reasonably have 5 encoders under a 5" screen, but I think 4 would be good enough without being too cramped.

Otherwise you need some oddball ultrawide display which might be more expensive.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

I’d say lots of I/O and preferably dedicated for specific functions (rather than freely assignable ones that end up being weird for presets and more prone to unexpected noise/level/impedance mismatches. I love having enough I/O to send an unprocessed DI out to a tuner/DAW, FX loops, amp with no IR, amp with IR and potentially wet fx seperate from the dry sound.

With it being Two Notes, I’m not sure how they’d handle DLC, but I’d generally rather it was entirely self contained (with the option of importing existing paid IR’s etc) rather than something where you get a few basic models and have to cherry pick whatever else you want. The more unlocked/less barriers for use, the better.

I like having lots of encoders to control things with rather than tabbing through pages. Again, the less overlap they have the better (at least for commonly used tasks). Poo switches (forum speak for footswitch encoders) are good IMO.

A slick editor and plugin parity make things much better, IK are a great example of how not to do things and it’s quite hard to fix after the fact. The more seamless the two are, the better.

 

[GTR37]

I’d say lots of I/O and preferably dedicated for specific functions (rather than freely assignable ones that end up being weird for presets and more prone to unexpected noise/level/impedance mismatches. I love having enough I/O to send an unprocessed DI out to a tuner/DAW, FX loops, amp with no IR, amp with IR and potentially wet fx seperate from the dry sound.

With it being Two Notes, I’m not sure how they’d handle DLC, but I’d generally rather it was entirely self contained (with the option of importing existing paid IR’s etc) rather than something where you get a few basic models and have to cherry pick whatever else you want. The more unlocked/less barriers for use, the better.

I like having lots of encoders to control things with rather than tabbing through pages. Again, the less overlap they have the better (at least for commonly used tasks). Poo switches (forum speak for footswitch encoders) are good IMO.

A slick editor and plugin parity make things much better, IK are a great example of how not to do things and it’s quite hard to fix after the fact. The more seamless the two are, the better.

Agree it that seamless integration that you can do exactly what you can on the computer from the unit
No one has really been able to do that yet not IK NDSP has tried but loading up plug ins on QC is hardly a perfect experience

So having that desktop experience on a nice Color screen on the hardware would be a win

 

[Chocol8]

Thanks guys, This is all really great information and I am logging this down now! I have specifically noted a mono amp and cab block. Is this shared by everyone here?

While I hate stereo for live use, there seems to be a lot of guys running stereo these days for home and recording, so I would not introduce a premium priced digital product that is mono only.

I think it would be a big plus to have the option for dual mono or stereo. Dual capture blocks that could be in series or parallel would allow better use of effects captures, and if possible, 3-4+ captures at once would open the flexibility more if the processor can handle it.

 

[Chocol8]

Please power by USB-C
If a next Gen unit comes out with a USB A printer cable slot I am going to scream

I would also include blue tooth. Why not have an easy BT connection for phone/tablets to quick connect and provide a full touch screen control? I would much rather have that than a smaller lower quality touch display on the device, but if people really want a screen on the device, then why not both?

Wired control from a PC only over USB is an ancient way of thinking and really should not be a consideration in 2025.

 

[JiveTurkey]

1. Great sounds with plenty of effects at the jump.
2. Multiple ins and outs that are easily assignable.
3. Comprehensive and easily configured footswitching capabilities.

 

[mavrick102000]

Please power by USB-C
If a next Gen unit comes out with a USB A printer cable slot I am going to scream

Printer USB is USB-B - but totally agree on using USB-C

 

[mikah912]

Thanks guys, This is all really great information and I am logging this down now! I have specifically noted a mono amp and cab block. Is this shared by everyone here?

Yup.

 

[Jarick]

Trying Genome briefly I wasn't a big fan of the sound of the amps...I should spend some more time with it this weekend if possible.

I think there's two paths you can go:

1. Stick with the compact pedal format and focus on your integrations that already exist. I.e. really emphasize the Two Notes stuff that you sell and that the user owns. Integrations are key, you want to be able to save and load presets from Two Notes software relatively seamlessly. I think you need a basic audio interface here to record, re-amp, and play back. Headphone out is a must. Three switches in a semi-compact format is pretty standard. You need some type of onboard screen to see what's going on. Preset loading is fine with a computer or phone editor. Bluetooth connection for editing and streaming is a big plus, as is USB bus power if possible. Makes it a perfect travel device.
   
   
2. All in one unit that's moderately compact. Basically the only thing here is Quad Cortex; nothing else is roughly the size of a laptop, has eight switches, and can run a proper full preset. You really need to be able to do everything all on the unit with a good screen, likely should be color touch screen in 2025, ability to run lots of effects, dual amps, gapless switching, all that stuff would be differentiators. I think having the cabinets, good room and post-amp effects, all that would be key. There's going to be a ton of competition in this space though and different expectations.

 

[Elric]

I think there are already successful products on the market that could be a source of inspiration. As far as the UI/form-factor, the Quad Cortex is probably the better unit out there so that's maybe a lead worth pursuing.

Agree. If something could be what the Quad Cortex promised to be at launch, it would be a world beater, still, I think.

 

[Ross Davies]

Trying Genome briefly I wasn't a big fan of the sound of the amps...I should spend some more time with it this weekend if possible.

I think there's two paths you can go:

1. Stick with the compact pedal format and focus on your integrations that already exist. I.e. really emphasize the Two Notes stuff that you sell and that the user owns. Integrations are key, you want to be able to save and load presets from Two Notes software relatively seamlessly. I think you need a basic audio interface here to record, re-amp, and play back. Headphone out is a must. Three switches in a semi-compact format is pretty standard. You need some type of onboard screen to see what's going on. Preset loading is fine with a computer or phone editor. Bluetooth connection for editing and streaming is a big plus, as is USB bus power if possible. Makes it a perfect travel device.
   
   
2. All in one unit that's moderately compact. Basically the only thing here is Quad Cortex; nothing else is roughly the size of a laptop, has eight switches, and can run a proper full preset. You really need to be able to do everything all on the unit with a good screen, likely should be color touch screen in 2025, ability to run lots of effects, dual amps, gapless switching, all that stuff would be differentiators. I think having the cabinets, good room and post-amp effects, all that would be key. There's going to be a ton of competition in this space though and different expectations.

Thanks for getting in touch. When did you try GENOME out of interest? It has evolved quite a lot in recent months and it is definitely worth giving our TSM-Ai amps a whirl!