Tube amps without cabs vs modeler

[Tanax]

As I've been saying for a while now, I much prefer the "interface" of a real amp without relying on a computer and just having physical knobs.
The issue I have though is that I don't have a good ability to utilize a real cab in my current living situation.

So my question is; Is it better to get a digital device (i.e. modeler or profiler) if I can only play with headphones / computer speakers? With tube amps, I need an attenuator for that, which isn't a problem per say, but will the sound be better with a modeler? Or will a tube + attenuator still feel/sound better even if I don't have a cab?

 

[Progressive_disclosure]

My cheap ass solution is running my amps preamp into an audio interface, then having a NAM plugin run a capture I made of just the power amp. Works with Tonex too. It does require a loadbox or line output jack on the amp to do the captures. It’s loud as fuck while capturing but then I can dial in the real tube amp with REAL KNOBS, get some power amp mojo from the capture and play with headphones.

There are also captures readily available of a lot of power amp sections if you just want to try out the setup with minimal work.

A non-computer setup I’ve been interested in as well would be a Tonex One pedal after the preamp. Throw in your FX loop pedals and you’re good to go.

 

[Mikael Dez]

As I've been saying for a while now, I much prefer the "interface" of a real amp without relying on a computer and just having physical knobs.
The issue I have though is that I don't have a good ability to utilize a real cab in my current living situation.

So my question is; Is it better to get a digital device (i.e. modeler or profiler) if I can only play with headphones / computer speakers? With tube amps, I need an attenuator for that, which isn't a problem per se, but will the sound be better with a modeler? Or will a tube + attenuator still feel/sound better even if I don't have a cab?

I recently started running a modeler in my FX loop and controlling the output volume with the modeler, so the signal going into the power amp is quieter. It works for me! I definitely can’t just run my amp + cab vanilla when people are home without being incredibly inconsiderate lol

 

[metropolis_4]

The answer will be different for everyone. I still much prefer the feel/sound of an amp through a load box.

Recently I was testing some pedals and switched back and forth between running them into these two signal chains:

tube amp -> reactive load -> mic-no-mo

Fractal fm3 running just amp and cab blocks

Both direct to the same mixing board and same PA speakers and headphones.

It surprised me how much more I liked the sound and feel of the amp setup. It was kind of like the difference between looking at a photograph and then looking up at the real thing

 

[HotRats]

If you prefer tube amps go for it, buy a good reactive load you'll be happy.

Modellers are great and a perfect tool for playing at home but you should choose what makes you happy.

 

[Mikael Dez]

I'll add that I mostly run my amp into a loadbox into my VP4 into my audio interface - best of both worlds imo - does not require my computer to run, I get the preamp + poweramp goodness.

 

[Progressive_disclosure]

It was kind of like the difference between looking at a photograph and then looking up at the real thing

That’s a nice analogy for how it feels, I like it. Of course recorded results can be much closer, especially in a mix and all of that.

 

[sleewell]

i dont use tubes at home, seems like a waste.

i use them a lot in band situations though.

 

[Progressive_disclosure]

i dont use tubes at home, seems like a waste.

i use them a lot in band situations though.

It’s one of the reasons for my setup, and why I call it cheap ass. I don’t want to wear out my power tubes on me noodling around with headphones. Preamp tubes feels more OK to me at least.

 

[OrganicZed]

The answer will be different for everyone. I still much prefer the feel/sound of an amp through a load box.

Recently I was testing some pedals and switched back and forth between running them into these two signal chains:

tube amp -> reactive load -> mic-no-mo

Fractal fm3 running just amp and cab blocks

Both direct to the same mixing board and same PA speakers and headphones.

It surprised me how much more I liked the sound and feel of the amp setup. It was kind of like the difference between looking at a photograph and then looking up at the real thing

Analog cabinet emulation is a much more raw and immediate sound than an IR. It can sound nice when cranked up through studio monitors, but I hate how it sounds with headphones / IEMs because it is too direct sounding.

The DSM Humboldt Simplifier gets a lot of love from people who have struggled with modelers using IR technology. That might also be worth checking out if you prefer the amp into analog cab sim experience. Other devices worth checking out include the Fryette Power Load and the Suhr A.C.E.

If memory serves me correctly, you have tried this before, but it should get in the same territory in theory:

 

[sleewell]

It’s one of the reasons for my setup, and why I call it cheap ass. I don’t want to wear out my power tubes on me noodling around with headphones. Preamp tubes feels more OK to me at least.

qc into studio monitors sounds awesome to me, then i just use the qc for effects with my tube amp and band

 

[bikescene]

I like having the option of both tube amps through a load box and modelers. I had to play my tube amps through a Suhr Reactive Load out of necessity for a few years when I lived in an apartment with paper thin walls. It has been great to have digital modeling to fill in the tonal gaps that my amps don’t cover.

It is much more fun to twist a physical knob than to get bogged down with the ability to make precise decimal changes to a control in the digital realm.

 

[metropolis_4]

That’s a nice analogy for how it feels, I like it. Of course recorded results can be much closer, especially in a mix and all of that.

Definitely. I doubt I could pick out one or the other in a recorded mix, and I know nobody in the audience can tell, but I feel and hear it when I’m playing.

Analog cabinet emulation is a much more raw and immediate sound than an IR. It can sound nice when cranked up through studio monitors, but I hate how it sounds with headphones / IEMs because it is too direct sounding.

The DSM Humboldt Simplifier gets a lot of love from people who have struggled with modelers using IR technology. That might also be worth checking out if you prefer the amp into analog cab sim experience. Other devices worth checking out include the Fryette Power Load and the Suhr A.C.E.

If memory serves me correctly, you have tried this before, but it should get in the same territory in theory:

I was actually worried I would hate the mic-no-mo when I’m using IEMs because I’ve had horrible experiences with analog cab sims in the past, but it really surprised me. I’ve been playing shows either it on IEMs all summer and it sounds great to me in the mix in my ears.

I’ve been thinking about picking up a Simplifier as a backup amp option.

 

[DrewJD82]

I was talking to JT about this the other day, but I have both in my apartment, amps + load box and my AxeFX. I spent probably 2 hours fucking with my Plexi50 trying to get it to sound a certain way when I eventually gave up and went to the AxeFX preset I made that’s essentially a duplicate of the Plexi50 and was able to get what I wanted from the amp, most likely as a result of the Hot Mod installed on the amp.

As much as I’ve been enjoying an amp and pedals again, I’d still opt for a modeler in the long run. The aspect of them being able to go further past what an amp can do is the main reason, but having a ton of effects available, as well as multiple amp models, is the main reason.

 

[joezlo]

It depends on what you play, cost vs reality, and how you feel about certain gear.

I've been using a Mesa Cab Clone Thru and EVH LBX for a few years for recording and have been very happy with the results.

This tune used a EVH Wolfgang Standard, swapped between middle position for pups during the verse, a POG for the bridge, full on bridge pup for chorus & solo, and a rolled back bridge pickup during the breakdown.


That's a EVH LBX ii on the blue channel going thru the cab clone.
Only effects added in post were some reverb & delay.

 

[Whizzinby]

Opt for whichever setup you will have the most fun playing imo.

 

[GreatGreen]

I use:

tube amp -> Suhr RL -> Suhr ACE cab emulator -> post EQ -> interface -> monitors

That setup gets me the best tones I’ve ever achieved. Can’t recommend it enough.

 

[paisleywookiee]

Analog cabinet emulation is a much more raw and immediate sound than an IR. It can sound nice when cranked up through studio monitors, but I hate how it sounds with headphones / IEMs because it is too direct sounding.

The DSM Humboldt Simplifier gets a lot of love from people who have struggled with modelers using IR technology. That might also be worth checking out if you prefer the amp into analog cab sim experience. Other devices worth checking out include the Fryette Power Load and the Suhr A.C.E.

If memory serves me correctly, you have tried this before, but it should get in the same territory in theory:

“How to make your $2000 modeler sound like a $69.95 Joyo”

 

[ejecta]

I use:

tube amp -> Suhr RL -> Suhr ACE cab emulator -> post EQ -> interface -> monitors

That setup gets me the best tones I’ve ever achieved. Can’t recommend it enough.

I’ve looked at those ACE pedals before but never tried one. I’ve just pivoted from my Quad Cortex to a Marshall SV20 loaded into a Suhr reactive load with a pedal board build. Right now using the UA Ox Stomp for cab sims and it sounds better to me than any modeler I’ve used. I may give the ACE a try at some point. I think analog cab sims when done right sound better than IR’s but not found one I liked in pedal form which is what I need for the current setup.

 

[ejecta]

Definitely. I doubt I could pick out one or the other in a recorded mix, and I know nobody in the audience can tell, but I feel and hear it when I’m playing.



I was actually worried I would hate the mic-no-mo when I’m using IEMs because I’ve had horrible experiences with analog cab sims in the past, but it really surprised me. I’ve been playing shows either it on IEMs all summer and it sounds great to me in the mix in my ears.

I’ve been thinking about picking up a Simplifier as a backup amp option.

I’ve heard a lot of good things about the Mic No Mo. I thought of giving it a go on the current build but trying to limit cables and hook ups. Still may give this and the ACE and try at some point.