Tonex Pedal in helix FX Loop

[pipelineaudio]

I've watched several videos that say the Tonex Pedal output is line level while the input is instrument level.

They show sending from the Helix send at instrument level, and using a different return so that it can be set at instrument level

On jason Sadite's video, he makes it look like the volume will be the same with setting the FX return to line or instrument level, with just a tone change. But when I do this, the pedal's output volume is WAY lower on line than instrument level (which is what I would expect but not how the videos make it look).

I find myself running the Tonex Pedal's global output volume at +3 and the return at instrument level and +4 to get it in the ballpark of the stock Helix amp volumes. Does this sound right?

Also, I realized the global input trim was set to +8.5, which was way too much, but even at zero, Tonex Pedal is a LOT LOT LOT LOT noiser from helix's FX send, than if I plug a guitar cable straight into it and back into Helix's FX return...and I mean on a blank preset with just FX send and return.

Does anyone know the settings for unity gain with these things? I guess I can try and work that out myself tomorrow

 

[mavrick102000]

More recent video's state from IK that it is instrument level - not from JSad.

I ran it at line and just left default settings for quite some time, now I just run it with the FX loop in Helix set to instrument, Loop1.

 

[gearJunkie]

A not-so-elegant solution is to use both loops on the Helix (floor or rack). Set loop1 to instrument and loop2 to line level, then use separate send1 and return2 blocks routing your cables to the ToneX appropriately.

Unfortunately this requires both loops so it will not work with the Stomp.

 

[pipelineaudio]

I wonder what's making the Helix send so noisy to send to Tonex vs a regular cable if its really at unity gain

 

[mavrick102000]

Do you have both hooked up to the same computer via USB? I used a USB isolator one one and then the noise level dropped to reasonable levels.

 

[DieSchmalle]

Regarding the two Send/Return levels: when you switch from Inst to Line the Send level is about 8.5dB higher, the Return's input impedance changes from 1MOhm to 10kOhm and the Return level is about 8.5dB lower.
So if you use the HX loop the net level doesn't change switching between the two level settings - send level is compensated by return level. If you use the Tonex in the loop with a clean sound you might not notice the difference. If you plug the guitar into the Tonex directly and going into the HX return then you'll notice the 8.5dB jump.

Regarding noise the highest signal to noise ratio is desirable. I'd set the loop to Line Level and find the highest guitar signal level that doesn't clip the Tonex's input (keeping in mind that I might want to boost the Tonex's amps with the HX boosts). I'd use the FX loop block's Send level for that. Then I'd set up the Tonex's input trim.

And yes, the HX's Send adds quite a bit of noise. If you use a hum destroyer like the Behringer HD400 you can at least elimitate the ground loop currents creeping in.

Have you tested the added noise coming from the Tonex (Tonex bypassed -> Helix with gain sound)? It doesn't matter much for your application, but would be interesting how it compares to the loop noise.

 

[pipelineaudio]

I'll be trying a lot of stuff today.

@Digital Igloo for the 1/4" line outs of Helix Floor, if I have it ignore the volume knob, is its output unity with the input? Trying to figure how I will callibrate levels here.

 

[mavrick102000]

Full up is unity on the big VOL knob.

 

[DieSchmalle]

I'll be trying a lot of stuff today.

@Digital Igloo for the 1/4" line outs of Helix Floor, if I have it ignore the volume knob, is its output unity with the input? Trying to figure how I will callibrate levels here.

Yes, if input and output levels are set to INST.

 

[pipelineaudio]

Interesting, so here's what I found

Reference level is -9.1

Helix:

Unity no loop is -9.3
Unity with loop instrument level -8.8
Unity with loop line level -9.3
Unity with send instrument return line -16.8
Unity with send at line and return at instrument -3.8

Send at instrument level -9.1
Send at line level -4.0

Amp and cab
2204 -21
cartographer -22.7
My non tonex default amp -15.1

Tonex: Input trim 0. Main volume 0
Bypassed Unity send and return instrument level -7.4
Bypassed Unity send at instrument level, return line level -14.8
Bypassed Unity send and return line level -10.6
Bypassed Unity send at line level, return at instrument level -5.2

BFX 51 Unity send and return instrument level -22.5
stock tonex 5150 XLARGE Unity send and return instrument level -24.2

Clean amps are MUCH louder, similar to the bypassed Tonex. I figure thats due to the nature of peaks vs saturated sounds, but I am tempted to get those amps up to bypassed levels and see what carnage ensues

 

[JiveTurkey]

I'd just use the Helix.