The truth shall set you free...or something like that.

[Bob Zaod]

I came to the realization the past week or so that using modelers strictly in 4cm with a good sounding real amp is the best experience for me. It was even true back when I had my Helix LT and the FM3, so it's not because I am using so called "inferior" stuff now, and even though it's a PITB compared to just going direct to PA it's just so much better to me. It helps to use amps that sound good at lower volumes too because most of my gigs don't allow me to crank it up.

It's even better than my favorite amp model into the return of a good amp. I am not saying it's best for everyone or it's superior to going direct for everyone but my best experience is using a real amps front end along with all the effects and drives I use. Also no matter the modeler, I cannot find a drive that interacts with a real amps input and overall tone as my Voodoo Labs Sparkle Drive and I have tried all the so called TS8/9 variants in every modeler I have owned. Along with many others and nothing does what the Sparkle Drive does for me. It's not just another TS808 variant like some proclaim. "Sparkle" is a perfect description of what it does to my tone. Clean or dirty. Best always on pedal I have ever owned.

Anywho it's back to hauling an amp, cab, and my 4cm snake for me when it comes to gigs and rehearsals. Honestly trying not to look back either. Just run with that for good. Let's see if I can do it LOL.

 

[VegasGuitar]

It is the increasing trend for zero volume stages, and much lower venue sound levels that would keep me in the modeler realm. Of course you could go with an amp with built-in load and IRs. Then you could have a stage cabinet to use when allowed, but still go silent stage when forced. I really dislike the trend for quieter live music unless you are a A-level touring act. And even they are getting wussy in their live volume.

(

 

[Bob Zaod]

And even they are getting wussy in their live volume.

For sure. Last time I went to Red Rocks in Denver for a show I could converse with my wife at slightly above conversation levels. It was fun but didn't feel like a rock concert to me.

 

[JiveTurkey]

My board: modeler + analogpreamps…into a 23 lbs all tube 50w combo (blackstar st James)

It’s light, analog when i want it to, modeled when I want it to, silent/direct…or oldschool 50w el34 goodies.
cant think of any reason not to go hybrid with the lightweight tube options available.

Finally!

 

[-BOOGIEMAN-]

I came to the realization the past week or so that using modelers strictly in 4cm with a good sounding real amp is the best experience for me. It was even true back when I had my Helix LT and the FM3, so it's not because I am using so called "inferior" stuff now, and even though it's a PITB compared to just going direct to PA it's just so much better to me. It helps to use amps that sound good at lower volumes too because most of my gigs don't allow me to crank it up.

It's even better than my favorite amp model into the return of a good amp. I am not saying it's best for everyone or it's superior to going direct for everyone but my best experience is using a real amps front end along with all the effects and drives I use. Also no matter the modeler, I cannot find a drive that interacts with a real amps input and overall tone as my Voodoo Labs Sparkle Drive and I have tried all the so called TS8/9 variants in every modeler I have owned. Along with many others and nothing does what the Sparkle Drive does for me. It's not just another TS808 variant like some proclaim. "Sparkle" is a perfect description of what it does to my tone. Clean or dirty. Best always on pedal I have ever owned.

Anywho it's back to hauling an amp, cab, and my 4cm snake for me when it comes to gigs and rehearsals. Honestly trying not to look back either. Just run with that for good. Let's see if I can do it LOL.

 

[DrewJD82]

I definitely prefer having my toes dipped in both waters. Whether that’s using pedals with modelers, real cabs with them or a real amp and 4CM or even just in front of an amp, it’s all good.

 

[laxu]

Pretty opposite for me. I could ditch my last amp (BluGuitar Amp 1) any day and be fine with just using digital modeling into either full range stuff or poweramp and cab.

I do find I like pedals more than what is in modelers. Not because they sound better, but because they are so easy to work with.

 

[Baba]

Of course you could go with an amp with built-in load and IRs. Then you could have a stage cabinet to use when allowed, but still go silent stage when forced.

Similar to this is what I'm doing these days, and I rarely ever go silent stage, but I can, if I want. I use my Helix as an FX processor, IEM mixer, and midi controller for my H&K Grandmeister Deluxe 40. Best of all worlds, IMO.

 

[JiveTurkey]

For live playing; real drives up front; modeler FX and IR player in the loop. That is the way for me.

 

[sleewell]

4cm is great because you still have your amp channels for different flavors of gain. leaves more DSP for effects and such. but its more cables and not every amp can be controlled via the modeler to change channels so it might be more tap dancing.

going into the fx loop can get pretty amazing tones. i think when you do this you have to use more of the extra parameters in the amp block like sag, bias, etc. all in one right in the modeler is great, the amp only for the power section. the simplicity is a huge benefit imo.

 

[JiveTurkey]

4cm is great because you still have your amp channels for different flavors of gain. leaves more DSP for effects and such. but its more cables and not every amp can be controlled via the modeler to change channels so it might be more tap dancing.

going into the fx loop can get pretty amazing tones. i think when you do this you have to use more of the extra parameters in the amp block like sag, bias, etc. all in one right in the modeler is great, the amp only for the power section. the simplicity is a huge benefit imo.

There is a tactile thing happening with drive pedals up front. There are some GREAT drives in the HX and the FM. I just like that little extra bit of sauce the real drives give just a hair more. Whether it's all in my imagination or not

 

[Bob Zaod]

There is a tactile thing happening with drive pedals up front. There are some GREAT drives in the HX and the FM. I just like that little extra bit of sauce the real drives give just a hair more. Whether it's all in my imagination or not

It's not imagination. Like you I own/have owned Helix and FM3/II/FM9 and a plethora or other modelers. None of the drives or pre's in any of them do for me what my Voodoo Labs Sparkle Drive does, especially when running into a tube amp. It's literally like waxing a new car. The new car looks good as is, but after a good wax by someone who knows how to do it properly it looks fantastic.

 

[Whizzinby]

Everything sounds better with an ampTM

 

[ejecta]

My board: modeler + analogpreamps…into a 23 lbs all tube 50w combo (blackstar st James)

It’s light, analog when i want it to, modeled when I want it to, silent/direct…or oldschool 50w el34 goodies.
cant think of any reason not to go hybrid with the lightweight tube options available.

Are you using another preamp outside the St James?

 

[ejecta]

Everything sounds better with an ampTM

I’ve been saying that for a long time hence my reputation as a “tube snob”.

On topic I think a modeler with a good amp is the best gigging rig. Go with the amp where you can and if you need silent go all modeler. I use my Suhr Badger 30 4cm with the Helix or just the Helix depending on the gig. I even use the Helix drives. Are they exactly like playing my collection of analog drives in my studio? No but for a gig it works. I by far go prefer digital drives into a tube amp than running analog drives into a modeler. The latter is very ewwww.

 

[TubeStack]

Everything sounds better with an ampTM

You D&Mers have come a long way…

 

[JiveTurkey]

Everything sounds better with an ampTM

This reminds of the threads where people found amp in the room by plugging into an amp

 

[Bob Zaod]

It is the increasing trend for zero volume stages, and much lower venue sound levels that would keep me in the modeler realm. Of course you could go with an amp with built-in load and IRs. Then you could have a stage cabinet to use when allowed, but still go silent stage when forced. I really dislike the trend for quieter live music unless you are a A-level touring act. And even they are getting wussy in their live volume.

(

I do have the gear to run a head with IR's but I have not tried it yet.

 

[Whizzinby]

I’ve been saying that for a long time hence my reputation as a “tube snob”.

You are a gentlemen and scholar.

 

[ejecta]

Yes I am atm...for practical reasons:

- I got a regular gig where I use the venues return of a combo, and a cab that’s there. So I only bring my board and a poweramp to have stereo rig as an endresult
- Other occasions I play stereo using 2 combos, preamp on my board is less cabling then using the amps preamp
- I favor having the least amount of variables when I play, this allows me to set the preamp I use in stone.

If the balance of my playing shifts from using venues stuff to bringing my own..maybe I’d make different choices.
The amps preamp sounds great..and I can well imagine using that. For now..the st james is a tube powered speaker…with IR that feeds foh ;-)



View attachment 3642

Slick setup!