Ten billion profiles/captures = one amp

Re: the static capture/profile vs a modeler vs. a dynamic profile

  • Yes, that simply makes the capture as good as a top quality amp sim.

    Votes: 11 78.6%
  • No, capturing is superior to even the best amp modeling to date so that would be a Game Changer!

    Votes: 3 21.4%

  • Total voters
    14
Pattern recognition is not guessing

Guess - estimate or conclude (something) without sufficient information to be sure of being correct.
Unless NN gains consciousness to know unknown unknowns it is not. But in practice it's the same - If Deutsch Bahn is late 9 times I will guess it will be late 10th time. If it is done by ANN you will say it recognized pattern and in a more humane (and actually correct) way it is guessing.
Original WaveNet Paper:
"The model outputs a categorical distribution over the next value xt with a softmax layer and it is optimized to maximize the log likelihood of the data w.r.t. the parameters." So it is literally guessing next sample based on long-term temporal data supported by deep layers.
 
Unless NN gains consciousness to know unknown unknowns it is not. But in practice it's the same - If Deutsch Bahn is late 9 times I will guess it will be late 10th time. If it is done by ANN you will say it recognized pattern and in a more humane (and actually correct) way it is guessing.
Original WaveNet Paper:
"The model outputs a categorical distribution over the next value xt with a softmax layer and it is optimized to maximize the log likelihood of the data w.r.t. the parameters." So it is literally guessing next sample based on long-term temporal data supported by deep layers.
Nope.

Estimating, predicting, estimation, generalization, training, and evaluation are not the same as guessing. Guessing implies a level of randomness that machine learning and neural networks are not based on.
 
Yeah, WaveNet determenistic or not? likely it is. Simply because model is sealed. Yet the process for each run is the same - guess.
Listen. If you're writing a sonnet or some emo poetry to get into Byron's pants, then sure. You can get away with that kind of logic with a squint.

But if you want to be accurate and scientific, then words and their differences actually mean something.
 
Look, that's why I posted what "guess" means. The only reason I post it is because of your comments from previous page where you dismiss others without 1) providing definitions 2) explaining.

again "Guess - estimate..." and you write "Estimating ... not the same as guessing".

Let me try one more time then: My brain is a neural net with self-created topology (what is called WaveNet) and weights (number of layers/weights - model). If I live inside groundhog day universe and applying my trains schedule example - I will use the same process - guessing to give the same (deterministic) answer.
 
Estimating, predicting, estimation, generalization, training, and evaluation are not the same as guessing.
Wow. Just wow. So you're saying that an estimate is not a guess? Here's a definition:

"What is an estimate in Math? Definition for estimate in math is an approximate value close enough to the correct value. A lot of guesses are made to make math easier and clearer." Same with generalization (aka inductive reasoning): a guess is made that a small number of specific examples may be used to predict the behavior of a category of phenomena in general.

FYI, an educated (aka "informed") guess is still a guess.
Guessing implies a level of randomness that machine learning and neural networks are not based on.
Then they're doing a poor job. FYI, much of the actual science of mathematics - mathematical concepts, not simple calculations - is based on guesses. Look up "greatest lower bound" and "least upper bound."

Also, look up computer simulation of physical systems (e.g. finite element analysis). The computer model makes a series of guesses as to the state of a system at a point, then, using physical principles, propagates the results of those guesses to the whole system, compares the results at specific points to known values, adjusts the initial guesses in response, redoes the sequence, etc., etc. It's an iterative method that consists literally of a series of guesses that get refined from one iteration to another until the estimate matches known values (often boundary conditions) within a sufficiently small approximation.

Also FYI, no amount of code can change the simple fact that, with nonlinear systems, an input-response pair cannot not determine a unique transfer function.
 
If we ignore for a sec how much WaveNet diverged from modeling neuron biology, I think it's funny that we compare products of component modelling of much simple things (resistors, caps) to products of component models of living cells. I mean parameters are "infinite" down to something-something planck but living cell set should be bigger.
 
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I'll let ChatGPT fill in the blanks for you.
 
Guessing - making a decision without sufficient information.
Estimating - making approximation based on incomplete information.

🤷‍♂️

I mean I could spend my time arguing with what I guess (lol, trigger word?) a human being but I won't waste my time arguing ChatGPT screenshots. I could take ChatGPT guess on the right answer to that question iff I'm presented with a trace of the whole computation. including sources and generation.
 
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Where's the "no I think capturing is a general PITA and I don't want it anywhere near my amp modeling at this point in time" poll option?
 
No I don't get why you went personal here. It still does look like you didn't contribute to back yourself up here apart from smileys
Where did I go personal, and what do I need to back up?

It is completely self evident that guessing and estimating (and the other things I mentioned) are not equivalent. Nobody involved in the ML space uses informal words like "guess" in any serious capacity. They might off-handedly use it, but it isn't a true reflection of how machine learning works; precisely because of the things I've been saying.

I mean I could spend my time arguing with what I guess (lol, trigger word?) a human being but I won't waste my time arguing ChatGPT screenshots. I could take ChatGPT guess on the right answer to that question iff I'm presented with a trace of the whole computation. including sources and generation.

It is actually quite ironic that we're talking about the capabilities and possibilities of neural networks here, which your happy to argue about. But you won't "waste" your time reading a few paragraphs provided by ChatGPT? Pretty funny that!


Ultimately, I think it is totally possible that machine learning could fully capture an amp without all of the millions of permutations of input data that everyone is assuming it would need. I just think it is a shame that Steve "the NAM guy" didn't really explain how.
 
Yeah I dismiss ChatGPT right away, your are right. There is even less certainty as to who I'm interacting with than talking to username Orvillain here

Where did I go personal?
literature references, etc. I don't mind though. If it wasn't the case even better.

PS it's sad thing people use ChatGPT as some sort of arbiter. I guess for general public it reached magic level. Pretty good for anybody who controls it.
 
PS it's sad thing people use ChatGPT as some sort of arbiter. I guess for general public it reached magic level. Pretty good for anybody who controls it.

In order to support this statement, you're going to have to tackle the screenshot I posted, and then demonstrate clearly why it is incorrect.

I mean.. you don't have to. But it would be nice if you did.
 
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