Talk me out of buying 20 year old modeling tech...

[Baba]

Consider the source - I'm an old man who doesn't feel like lifting anything heavier than my guitar.

Oh I hear you. At times, I'll bring one of my guitars over another one, if it's like 1 or 1.5 lbs lighter.

 

[ctreitzell]

The Cyber series sounded great but if I remember correctly, there were issues with the motorized knobs after a while on the Twin.

not so far on my two CTs
again, data wheel encoder is much more fragile

 

[ctreitzell]

So, last night I was playing thru my CTFE>VHT2562

then I'm feeding one speaker in my CT cabs and another 1x12 in stereo either side spread wide.
The 1x12 are Tech21 PE60 with the power amps removed and 2021 EV 12L Classics.

I've been mainly playing thru the CTSE the last year or so straight into the EV 12L cabs.

So, the CTFE had old programs in the main 4 Program slots. And I went looking to see if I could get any satisfaction with high gain tones. Clean tones are really fantastic with this setup, high gain just...no

What I noticed tho is the G12T-100 in the CT cabs just kind of disappear with distortion tones compared to the EV 12L which seem to sound the same regardless of the volume...It was 0330, so I didn't tweak for too long

 

[JCW308]

not so far on my two CTs
again, data wheel encoder is much more fragile

Great! I'm going by what we saw in our music store, coming in for repairs to an authorized Fender shop.

 

[ctreitzell]

Good for you. I'm going by what we saw in our music store, coming in for repairs to an authorized Fender shop.

You could have included that “in the field” experience with your initial comment, it’s great to have a viewpoint from the retailer side.

Nevertheless, I, personally have two Fender CyberTwins and have had zero issues with motorised knobs on my CTs. That said, neither of my amps has gigged. And further, I have started using them daily again.

Looks like this right now

 

[ctreitzell]

@timbuck3 I'm adding Program Selection to my remote control layout for CT

it's fairly easy to add, so I should have it added some time next week

 

[timbuck3]

So, @timbuck3
here are some videos to show how to get bluetooth midi connected:
Yamaha MD BT-01 (this is what I use);
This YTer suggests a third party app for iOS;
I use the Yamaha app...the Yamaha iphone app is called MDUD-BT01 and is much improved currently.
If searching the ios app store, I only found this MDUD-BT01 app in iphone apps and NOT in ipad apps;
the utility app works for both iphone and ipad.
I don't use this for computer, but the video talks about computer connections.


CME WIDI
has potentially much better expandability; all that expansion does cost more money for each addition.
It's a bit like buying expensive cables...that said I have never used it, so I have no experience
same YTer; but explaining the WIDI Jack system
and he is using Midi Designer app on his ipad, so you can see that too

Wow that’s great. I subscribed to your YouTube channel as alot of information there.
I’m in the process of deciding which MPC to go with that does drums and looping in the same box as I want something more portable and the MPC live 2+ looks really interesting. It’s kind of expensive but it’s kind of checks all the boxes for me say the MPC one. I do mostly ambient stuff so this would be for my girlfriend who’s a drummer and we can just sit on the couch and jam and sing while I play my acoustic or whatever in the drums she can play right on the MPC live too, but I’m still not sold on it because it’s supposedly doesn’t have a lot of acoustic drums in itso I kinda would like something with drums acoustic drums, hip-hop ambient drums whatever the Yamaha makes a like a hand sonic pad thing. I think it’s called FP something with a speaker on board that looks cool but no looper.

 

[Axe]

I have two sides of my lil home studio.. A digital side where my TMP, QC, Helix rack and old Axe Fx Std (that I still adore) reside. And then there's my analog side where my tube amps reside. I just bought an Ultra for effects only (to replace the depicted Eleven rack) for my tube amps

 

[timbuck3]

 

[ctreitzell]

I went searching for high gain tones in my CTFE
I tried both VHTs
I prefer the 2902, but the fan noise is awful
I might try a new replacement fan to investigate if that helps
I was playing class A

Some factory ROM programs sound darn good for high gain tones

Stage '99+
Vintage Stack
Modern Stack
all sounding properly brutal, especially with LP 7string

having a remote control is a game changer with the CyberTwins
for those three programs, just flipping the pre/ post distortion alone delivers satisfaction is some variety from those programs

I gonna get into improving my remote layout, There are a lot of missing functions

I have now added all programs (A, C and P) to the remote and came up with mnemonics which users can know the important settings in each program
including Reverb Type and Timbre and Compression setting

great tones are certainly possible out of CTs with a better power amp

 

[LScottK]

I don't remember mine (1x12 version 2), weighing that much, although I was only like 30 years old when I had it.

Speaking of old tech, I kinda still want an AX2-212 like I used to have

I bought an Axsys 212 that I later upgraded to the AX2. The bass player in the band I was in at the time worked in a high end cabinet shop. I traded him a computer and he separated the 2x12 combo into a separate head and 2 speaker cabinets. It was beautifully made, really ridiculously nice. It was also very impractical. I hated to gig with it because I didn't want to damage the wood (which I did despite my efforts to be careful). It was also really heavy and took additional trips for cart in/out. I sold it in about 2005 or 2006. I was moving a lot at the time, I had bought a Flextone II, and I just didn't have the space to store something I didn't use. Now that I'm married and have a house with room, I wish I hadn't sold it. Here are some pics. It sounded harsh with exaggerated high end, but cut through the mix great when we played live.

 

[Baba]

I bought an Axsys 212 that I later upgraded to the AX2. The bass player in the band I was in at the time worked in a high end cabinet shop. I traded him a computer and he separated the 2x12 combo into a separate head and 2 speaker cabinets. It was beautifully made, really ridiculously nice. It was also very impractical. I hated to gig with it because I didn't want to damage the wood (which I did despite my efforts to be careful). It was also really heavy and took additional trips for cart in/out. I sold it in about 2005 or 2006. I was moving a lot at the time, I had bought a Flextone II, and I just didn't have the space to store something I didn't use. Now that I'm married and have a house with room, I wish I hadn't sold it. Here are some pics. It sounded harsh with exaggerated high end, but cut through the mix great when we played live.

Holy moly! That’s kinda awesome!

 

[ctreitzell]

Yes, I agree with you; bruising metal tones out of a CyberTwin pre section isn't happening IME...maybe not even with the right pedals/ pres

edge of breakup and heavy rock, sure

frankly it is a bit different beast with a better power amp

OK, I have changed my mind, I've spent several sessions the past couple weeks looking at getting some high gain goodness, it is possible, for sure. In my case, I have a couple EV12L Classic cabs, and the speaker change does have a huge impact in this regard.

On the CyberTwin first edition, Stage '99 and Vintage Stack in the A presets can be pretty satisfying high gain sounds IMO.

My plan over the next few weeks is to put the FX loop through its paces...with TriAxis and Rock Master...I'll see where that goes

I haven't gotten into the fx loop, I've mainly been working on the CyberTwin remote control for ipad...lot's of additions and fixes to get to...and resizes easily for iphone

 

[Tritium3H]

I bought an Axsys 212 that I later upgraded to the AX2. The bass player in the band I was in at the time worked in a high end cabinet shop. I traded him a computer and he separated the 2x12 combo into a separate head and 2 speaker cabinets. It was beautifully made, really ridiculously nice. It was also very impractical. I hated to gig with it because I didn't want to damage the wood (which I did despite my efforts to be careful). It was also really heavy and took additional trips for cart in/out. I sold it in about 2005 or 2006. I was moving a lot at the time, I had bought a Flextone II, and I just didn't have the space to store something I didn't use. Now that I'm married and have a house with room, I wish I hadn't sold it. Here are some pics. It sounded harsh with exaggerated high end, but cut through the mix great when we played live.

Wowza! That is a blast from the past. That is some beautiful woodworking-customization.

I owned a Line 6 AX2-212 for years, and ended up donating it to a good friend. He still has it. I had it in 90’s through 2007.

I had mostly happy, nostalgic memories. But Oh My. I played through it again, a couple of years ago…after many many years had passed.

It is NOW, BY COMPARISON, to modern digital modelers, pretty embarrassing. The dead give-away is its inaccurate “modeling” of a tube amp is the fact it does NOT respond well, at all, to guitar volume pot changes. Zero dynamics.

That issue, and Line 6’s subsequent POD modeler (I hated it) soured me on digital modeling for many years. The only bright, shining gem, prior to the Fractal Audio revolution, was Vox/Korg’s original “BLUE” Valvetronix series. Those original digital amps (only the Blue series) are STILL AMAZING!

Obviously, since those days , technology has rapidly progressed, and Fractal, Boss/Roland as well as Line 6 have developed real-time DSP-based SPICE Modeling systems into the AMAZINGLY accurate tube amp simulations they are today.

 

[ctreitzell]

Far as I know CyberTwin is full of Boss FX

 

[JiveTurkey]

I'm hoping Itchy picked up an Axe III by now

 

[LScottK]

Wowza! That is a blast from the past. That is some beautiful woodworking-customization.

I owned a Line 6 AX2-212 for years, and ended up donating it to a good friend. He still has it. I had it in 90’s through 2007.

I had mostly happy, nostalgic memories. But Oh My. I played through it again, a couple of years ago…after many many years had passed.

It is NOW, BY COMPARISON, to modern digital modelers, pretty embarrassing. The dead give-away is its inaccurate “modeling” of a tube amp is the fact it does NOT respond well, at all, to guitar volume pot changes. Zero dynamics.

That issue, and Line 6’s subsequent POD modeler (I hated it) soured me on digital modeling for many years. The only bright, shining gem, prior to the Fractal Audio revolution, was Vox/Korg’s original “BLUE” Valvetronix series. Those original digital amps (only the Blue series) are STILL AMAZING!

Obviously, since those days , technology has rapidly progressed, and Fractal, Boss/Roland as well as Line 6 have developed real-time DSP-based SPICE Modeling systems into the AMAZINGLY accurate tube amp simulations they are today.

I agree about the tonal limitations of the Line 6 Ax2. I got some decent enough tones out of it, but there is no comparison to modern modeling. I’ve been using Fractal products since 2011/AxeFX2. Around the time that I switched to Fractal I was in a band with another guitarist who played a 2x12 CyberTwin. I never plugged in to the CyberTwin, but I do remember liking his tone. I’d just be concerned about parts availability. I have a Roland VG-99 that has a couple of flaky encoders. I looked into getting it fixed and a Roland authorized repair service told me that the parts are no longer made, and the only way to repair would be to poach parts from another unit. I would be concerned about the same issue with a CyberTwin.

 

[laxu]

Wowza! That is a blast from the past. That is some beautiful woodworking-customization.

I owned a Line 6 AX2-212 for years, and ended up donating it to a good friend. He still has it. I had it in 90’s through 2007.

I had mostly happy, nostalgic memories. But Oh My. I played through it again, a couple of years ago…after many many years had passed.

It is NOW, BY COMPARISON, to modern digital modelers, pretty embarrassing. The dead give-away is its inaccurate “modeling” of a tube amp is the fact it does NOT respond well, at all, to guitar volume pot changes. Zero dynamics.

That issue, and Line 6’s subsequent POD modeler (I hated it) soured me on digital modeling for many years. The only bright, shining gem, prior to the Fractal Audio revolution, was Vox/Korg’s original “BLUE” Valvetronix series. Those original digital amps (only the Blue series) are STILL AMAZING!

Obviously, since those days , technology has rapidly progressed, and Fractal, Boss/Roland as well as Line 6 have developed real-time DSP-based SPICE Modeling systems into the AMAZINGLY accurate tube amp simulations they are today.

The Yamaha DG and H&K Zentera/Zenamp from the same era were way better, but also more expensive. The Blue Valvetronix to me felt like the first real improvement over those.

Line6 just had way better marketing.

 

[LScottK]

Here's a SoundCloud link to some clips of the Line 6 AX2 with the custom cabinets, as shown in the pictures above. The recordings were taken using a crappy boom box at one of our gigs. I guess the sound quality is so poor that it is of marginal value for comparison. There is one track that was recorded at a professional studio. I was doing casuals at the time with a vocalist. She decided to move to Las Vegas and she wanted some tracks that she could use to audition for gigs. The comb filtering heard on Little Wing is due to placing a mic on only one of the two stereo speakers. The "stereo width" parameter was turned on, which caused the comb filtering. Little Wing was recorded with a stock G&L Legacy. I was using a Fender Flame Elite (Japanese made precursor of the Fender Robben Ford) on the live tunes.

 

[LScottK]

My apologies to the OP for the thread derail.

I agree with @laxu about Yamaha DG amps. I had a DG-80 for a time. It sounded great!

Never tried the Zentera, though I lusted after one. They were just really expensive!