Talk me out of buying 20 year old modeling tech...

[Diary Of An Axeman]

Johnson Millennium 250 is still killer, way ahead of its time and could easily hold its own .

 

[Sedaxel]

I used to gig a Zoom G5n into the return of a Peavey Valveking MicroHead 20W tube amp and a Matrix Neolight cab. It sounded quite good. It was loud, light and versatile. I could perfectly still be using that rig (the G5n is not 20 year old gear, though).

 

[madmarcus1960]

There are a few old digital amplifiers that still measure up. The power Kemper is still excellent . The old Yamaha DG stuff is still pretty good but lots are terrible but they always were. Dishonourable mention goes to the Vetta here.

I still have a DG80, that a friend made into a head, due to a cracked combo case. Still has a few really great basic sounds

 

[ctreitzell]

I have a CyberTwin First Edition and an SE
I created an ipad remote control for CyberTwins

I've always been annoyed with the SS power amp
...and in 20 yrs, I never thought to use the line out
I just tried piping my CTs thru my VHTs...I have a 2902 and a 2562

seriously, the VHTs are such a massive improvement

So far I haven't had any issues with my CTs...a little data wheel jumping on the older one...but I don't use the data wheel much

the main issue with a CyberTwin is the FX loop is rather unusable as far as I've been able to figure out

 

[metropolis_4]

FWIW I don’t think the Cyber Deluxe had the motorized knobs, just the Cyber Twin.

I had both an original and an SE back in the day and gigged with them quite a bit. They were solid and never gave me any issues. Tones were hit and miss. I remember I loved the Fender clean tones, but I really struggled to get overdrive tones I liked out of just the amp.

IIRC the Cyber Twin preamp was analog, not digital.

 

[ctreitzell]

FWIW I don’t think the Cyber Deluxe had the motorized knobs, just the Cyber Twin.

I had both an original and an SE back in the day and gigged with them quite a bit. They were solid and never gave me any issues. Tones were hit and miss. I remember I loved the Fender clean tones, but I really struggled to get overdrive tones I liked out of just the amp.

IIRC the Cyber Twin preamp was analog, not digital.

Yes, I agree with you; bruising metal tones out of a CyberTwin pre section isn't happening IME...maybe not even with the right pedals/ pres

edge of breakup and heavy rock, sure

frankly it is a bit different beast with a better power amp

the Trim knob determines how much signal is hitting the AD converters according to the manual
and to circumvent the trim knob my experience points to the FX loop by passes the Trim circuit,
thenagain I'm not sure how the signal is getting in...directly into the FX return? I'm not sure

My plan over the next few weeks is to put the FX loop through its paces...with TriAxis and Rock Master...I'll see where that goes

I have never played a Cyber Deluxe

 

[Cactusprick]

still regret selling SCXD to this day... perhaps it would have burnt out by now. lol
does anyone still keep this amp?

 

[ctreitzell]

I would avoid the Cyber Twin because you can't realistically fix those motorized knobs unless you're an engineer with a lot of time, money, and patience.

If I were looking at old tech, I'd be curious about the first generation Valvetronix amps, or the Vox Tone Lab or whatever they were called.

When an user changes a "program" (preset) on a CyberTwin;
then, the change to the new destination parameter value(s) is instant;
the motorized knobs then "catch-up".
The Trim and Master (Volume) knobs are not motorized and cannot be automated.

The CyberTwin is easily remote controlled via midi (GM and SysEx); I created a few remote control layouts for ipad. I'm talking nearly every knob and no more front panel menu diving (except save functions). Frankly, using my app has taught me a lot about the CyberTwin possibilities cuz no more awful menu diving out of the optimum throw of the amp.

The weak point on all these era of designs is the encoder wheel; termed "data wheel" on a CyberTwin.

Again, a remote control can be created for the data wheel/ added to my remote layouts.

All this said, there are plenty of issues...if there is a runaway, motorized knob, that could be a big problem. I've never seen that before, but wouldn't surprise me.

Also, if feeding the CyberTwin midi events from a sequencer or similar, the screen will chase those events and cannot be disabled...things can get messy that way. I was feeding about 12 simultaneous parameter modulations via Reason, and the screen was going nutz.

 

[timbuck3]

I have a CyberTwin First Edition and an SE
I created an ipad remote control for CyberTwins

I've always been annoyed with the SS power amp
...and in 20 yrs, I never thought to us the line out
I just tried piping my CTs thru my VHTs...I have a 2902 and a 2562

seriously, the VHTs are such a massive improvement

So far I haven't had any issues with my CTs...a little data wheel jumping on the older one...but I don'y use the data wheel much

the main issue with a CyberTwin is the FX loop is rather unusable as far as I've been able to figure out

That’s so cool. You made a program for the cyber twin. I remember there was one that was available long time ago but I can’t find it so would you be willing to share? Would it work on an iPhone?

 

[Leperclown]

Hi all,

I had a Cyber Twin SE around twenty years ago. I loved the technology and the WYSIWYG knobs. Clean and edge of breakup tones were great, but any sort of gained up tones sounded utterly unconvincing. I suppose it was a Fender (EVH line excluded). It was also underpowered for a loudish three piece classic rock group.

I replaced the Cyber Twin with a Vox Valvetronix AD120VT combo ('blue' model), which was a huge step up in sound and 'punch' (I augmented the combo with the ad120 2x12 extension cab. I had the excellent double expression pedal VC12 floorboard to go with it. In particular, the UK Modern model with a touch of delay & reverb was awesome.

After a few years the Valvetronix was flipped. I sure missed that amp....

A couple of years ago I bought an AD120VT head + small VC4 floor pedal for 300 Aussie dollars and bought an unloaded stereo 4x12 cab to go with it. I installed 2x 50 Watt Egnaters plus 2 x 70 Celestion V Type Neos. Sounds amazing across all model types (again, the UK Modern model is a standout).

Side by side, I don't think there is a lot of difference between the quality of tones from the AD120VTH and my: Kemper Power rack; JVM410 combo; GT1000 + Tube stereo Power Amp; or Egnater Tweaker 88 (particularly in a band context).

The Valvetronix "Blue" range is twenty year old modelling technology that I would NOT talk you out of buying. Also, honourable mention to Line 6 Spider Valve MkII 100w and the slightly younger, Line 6 DT50. The Eleven Rack still competes.

PS The AD120VTH is stereo (but only the onboard Rotary effect is actually stereo). The GT1000 through the stereo power amp of the AD120VTH sounds very nice indeed.

Cheers!

Paul

 

[ctreitzell]

That’s so cool. You made a program for the cyber twin. I remember there was one that was available long time ago but I can’t find it so would you be willing to share? Would it work on an iPhone?

I'm happy to share my layouts for free; I just ask that whomever I share them with not distribute them. DM me if you want the layout(s). I made one layout for First Edition and one for SE because there are a few slight differences...and I also made a layout for both FE and SE.

My layouts are for ipad, but they do certainly work on iphone. I might be able to make a mini version for iphone...that would take some time. Also, users require Midi Designer Pro 2/X app which is paid app. Also required is some way to get ipad/ iphone to send midi to & from the amp. I use Yamaha MD BT-01. The BT-01 can be a pain without a midi thru box, I use Kenton Thru-5 and Merge-8 to inject Bluetooth into my midi routing. The merge-8 is the only midi expander I have found that will allow a BT-01 I/O connection. Midi Solutions boxes have the I/O ports too far away.

Cyber Commander is what that old midi librarian was called. I still have Cyber Commander on my computer. I tried to get Cyber Commander to work for me for a month or two. The copy protection was so over the top that I never really got it to work. Thing is, that Cyber Commander doesn't really help the user to remote control tweak the CyberTwin in real time, it's mainly to manage the programs and get information about those programs. Really, you can back up and deploy your programs with straight up SysEx, so Cyber Commander isn't really very necessary.

My remote control layout is the opposite; users can't save or load programs with it...I did not make a Data Wheel remote control where user can spin the big knob, because a user can do all of that with a midi footcontroller. Accessing all the controls under the buttons on the front panel is what I made. Sadly, I also never made this remote control to sync with whatever the current settings are on your CT. There is a user who did start cracking that egg, but he stopped.

And, really I had stopped developing anything for CyberTwin because I was using other rack gear and didn't think the CyberTwin was very useful because of the power amp issue. Now that I have rekindled my love affair with CyberTwins line out thru VHT power amps, I might go back to developing the remote control layouts more.

 

[ctreitzell]

@timbuck3 I just had a look at one of my layouts on iphone XS

basically the pages of controls are designed to ipad screens and doesn't resize to iphone screen

the controls do "work" on iphone, yet you would have to navigate the pages a bit differently...I would need to redesign to iphone for users to not have to do extra navigation ...I will have a look at making an iphone screen size version

which version of CT do you have? FE or SE?

 

[ctreitzell]

OK, @timbuck3 ...I think it works good enough right now without a redesign...you just have to get Midi Designer and some way to connect you iphone to your CT

When I first started doing this I used my computer audio interface connected to CT and wired my ipad to my pc with lightning cable and used MIDI-OX application to communicate ipad messages to CT...but wireless is waaaaaaay better; wireless just connects much more easily...computer firewall can be tricky to deal with

I'd suggest a CME WIDI because if you want to connect other MIDI cables to your CT, you will likely need a MIDI Thru/Merge box because BT-01 is two midi jacks with a short cable. WIDI is midi plugs with an invisible cable...WIDI costs a bit more but might save money after all is said and done

 

[JCW308]

The Cyber series sounded great but if I remember correctly, there were issues with the motorized knobs after a while on the Twin.

 

[timbuck3]

@timbuck3 I just had a look at one of my layouts on iphone XS

basically the pages of controls are designed to ipad screens and doesn't resize to iphone screen

the controls do "work" on iphone, yet you would have to navigate the pages a bit differently...I would need to redesign to iphone for users to not have to do extra navigation ...I will have a look at making an iphone screen size version

which version of CT do you have? FE or SE?

Se 2-12 combo

 

[ctreitzell]

Se 2-12 combo

if you want my layout for CTSE, DM me an email address

 

[Baba]

I still have my old Line 6 Flextone XL combo that I bought new in 1998. Still sounds good, still dangerously loud.

If it didn't weigh 350 pounds I'd probably still be gigging with it.

I don't remember mine (1x12 version 2), weighing that much, although I was only like 30 years old when I had it.

Speaking of old tech, I kinda still want an AX2-212 like I used to have

 

[makeitstop]

I don't remember mine (1x12 version 2), weighing that much, although I was only like 30 years old when I had it.

Consider the source - I'm an old man who doesn't feel like lifting anything heavier than my guitar.

Speaking of old tech, I kinda still want an AX2-212 like I used to have

I always wanted an AX2, but they introduced the Flextone line and I went with that.

Might be cool to have one and mess with it, just to see how the 'old style' modelers used to work.

 

[ctreitzell]

So, @timbuck3
here are some videos to show how to get bluetooth midi connected:
Yamaha MD BT-01 (this is what I use);
This YTer suggests a third party app for iOS;
I use the Yamaha app...the Yamaha iphone app is called MDUD-BT01 and is much improved currently.
If searching the ios app store, I only found this MDUD-BT01 app in iphone apps and NOT in ipad apps;
the utility app works for both iphone and ipad.
I don't use this for computer, but the video talks about computer connections.


CME WIDI
has potentially much better expandability; all that expansion does cost more money for each addition.
It's a bit like buying expensive cables...that said I have never used it, so I have no experience
same YTer; but explaining the WIDI Jack system
and he is using Midi Designer app on his ipad, so you can see that too

 

[ctreitzell]

aaaaand thanks to my re-researching this, looks like the CME Thru6 might be the best all in one solution!
uh, yeah...this is a no-brainer, 63 currency units from Thomann to purchase this...my previous suggestions
ar clearly totally out of date!
Wish I could sell my two BT-01 and Kenton Thru-5 and Merge-8
but who in their right mind would buy that stuff from me when they can purchase these WIDI hubs?