Stuff

[Shredder777]

'

 

[TheTrueZoltan!]

1. This talk about conversion quality is ridiculous and has to stop.
2. If you think that Fender‘s amp models are „up there“ but the ones in Line 6 devices are not you are indeed fundamentally wrong.

 

[mercifulfuzziness]

Wauw

 

[Joshual-L]

Fractal FM3
+ Possibly the best amp models (Do they have the last 5% tubeness that the IR-X gives?)
+ Would fit on board
+ Tweaker paradise
- Really bad, terrible on board UI WRONG
- Latency 3ms per loop, running an external preamp in loop will probably be 5-6ms+, not great as real amp harness.
- Only one loop (have read fractal loop can color the tone.. unconfirmed)
- Need a volume pedal ($200)
- Limited switching options with only three buttons. NO
- Bad switching lag requires scene programming NO
- Tweaker hell
(Summary: A plethora of realistic amp models, but maybe not quite the last 5% a real tube preamp gives. Limited switching, tweaker's paradise/hell.)

Where are the missing 5% ?

 

[Enchilada Jones]

I just sent the IR-X back after receiving the Nano Cortex and trying a few Friedman captures. Sure the captures don't let you dial it from near clean to heavy heavy gain within the one capture but considering I want a few preset 'snapshots' of my preferred gain settings and switch between them with footswitching/midi It didn't make sense to only have the one 'amp' compared to all the Nano can provide.
Neither are perfect but for my needs the Nano easily replaces the IR-X

And, yes, from my experience the Fractal devices deliver the best replication of the full amp experience if you want to just tweak away at a single model and have a 'a real amp' experience. Assuming you want to replace the output of a real amp/cabinet in the room with whatever you want to use to amplify your Fractal models with.

 

[GTR37]

I think your a great dude
I like reading your posts but being totally honest every time I see a Zoom Krampus in the conversation I feel like we are being trolled

 

[Enchilada Jones]

I found the capture I settled on for my favorite Friedman BE 'preset' on Nano has a gain roll off on the guitar volume pot equal to the IR-X. Some captures work better than others in that regard.
I set the IR-X and Nano up side by side and tried to make the IR-X compel me to keep it but it became obvious it wasn't a better option and obviously limited. I wouldn't say it is 'only one sound' but it is only one amp replication and the Nano has it covered...and then provides countless other amps too.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

If you’re happy with the zoom, I think basically any of the above (besides Headrush or Boss) would be a solid option. Helix, Fractal and NDSP have the BE100 nailed, and capture tech is all more than good enough too.

I think there is way more to converter quality than simply noise floor. There are so many more things I’d be concerned about when using a modeller.

I’m also not sure how much of an issue the colouration from loops or latency ACTUALLY are, despite how much they got brought up.

What’s the intended use for this rig? Is there any criteria that are most important to meet? Maybe that’ll inform the decision a bit?

 

[MirrorProfiles]

A recording and live playing harness. Amp in loop, another loop that receives output from RL, run through effects. Ability to reamp the DI through real tube amp in loop. If the mfx does not have two loops, I have to recable.

Loop A - amp input/send (mfx out to amp's amp's return, 4cm for playing in room, while recording the DI)
Loop B - RL return (reamping through Loop A send, return B)

In the past I used my RL output into my interface and adding effects in Guitar Rig. I want to do all the effects in a hardware modeler this time so I have them live while playing and recording the DI, and then also later going back to reamp the DI.

any reason not to use a gigrig (or similar) switcher and then whatever IR loader+FX unit of your choice?

 

[Byrdman]

IMO, your analysis doesn't consider cost. Not saying I disagree with everything you are saying, but you are putting everything in one cost bucket IMO skews your analysis. The fact that I can get Helix tones out of a $600 stomp and you are comparing that to a QC or Fractal is not the most accurate way to do it, also IMO.

To my ears, a Stomp is head and shoulders above anything with Zoom printed on it, and anything else in that price range, but I'm glad you like yours and we probably have different uses for what we are doing.

 

[TheTrueZoltan!]

Ok, rule #1 of my thread. […]

You suck.

 

[Mongillo19]

You suck.

If he doesn't like line 6 he doesn't like line 6

 

[paisleywookiee]

To my ears, a Stomp is head and shoulders above anything with Zoom printed on it, and anything else in that price range,

110%. It’s baffling to hear anyone like Zoom or Boss more, but hey, whatever floats his boat I guess.

 

[mercifulfuzziness]

There was a MS80IR+ thread floating a few weeks ago where I posted side by side Choptones demos of Helix vs new zoom algos. Lets put it this way, if you listen to that and think the Helix algos are "head and shoulders above" then you are probably one of those people who hears the HX artifacts and conflate them with "realistic". That demo example showcases exactly what is wrong with the HX tones to my ears. Even on a low/mid gain amp there is a boxy compression that doesn't breathe.

But that doesn't matter. Helix is far in rearview mirror. Its been ten years they are due an update. I'm sure their next series will be fantastic.

So why did you mention it in the first place? Do you want to be convinced that it's good? That will not happen because you said:

Ok, rule #1 of my thread. If you think Line6 modeling is anywhere near the top devices, we are too much in disagreement to make any progress. I do not believe Helix models are anywhere close to Fractal, not even as good as Zoom/Boss. This is my opinion, but there isn't getting over it. There are artifacts and compression that I hear in every amp that I associate as the "Helix sound", that I find disagreeable. I understand that other people don't hear these things or hear them and think they are desirable. Also, I'm not going to invest in a ten year old platform.

Do you want this forum to focus on a couple of brands only? Do you want to edit your first post and edited Helix out of the equation?

 

[mercifulfuzziness]

The only thing I said about Line6 was that they had more effects than the other brands, but the amp modeling wasn't an improvement on what I have now.

This wasn't supposed to be about Line6 as they aren't in consideration for my next modeler, but the Helix mafia apparently did not like that sentiment. I am looking at Fractal or QC (or maybe outside chance of TMP).

It might be the wording that you choose that might get people go into you a bit. And either you are not aware of it, or it's something you do on purpose, like using the words 'helix mafia'.

 

[jellodog]

Profiling not as good as ToneX

Sure... if we're splitting hairs about that hard to define extra 2% in the accuracy stakes.

But the QC / NC captures are still super enjoyable, accurate enough and satisfying, even if they do sometimes sound very subtly "different" to the Tonex. I quite like the "different", actually.

Similar to how a there's many Kemper users out there that still like its compressed enhanced mids, even though it's technically less accurate than all of the other capture devices these days. Just try it and see if you like it.

Anyway, despite owning an Axe-Fx, I bought the Nano and I've been enjoying it. An Excellent capture on the QC or NC will still sound better than an average capture on Tonex and vice versa - there's so much variation in the different capture processes used by individuals. Some are hobbyists and some are professionals with some really nice outboard gear.

Regardless:

Just get the FM3. It has a plethora of fabulous amps to offer and excellent effects. If you don't like it, the resale value is decent.

And absolutely do not consider the Boss. They blew it!

 

[Mongillo19]

I say get a QC try it, get a FM3 try it. Return what you don't like

 

[mercifulfuzziness]

Well yeah. I said nothing derogatory about Helix other than it wasnt an improvement on what I have now and I got jumped by a handful of people. What else do you call that?

The internet.

:)

 

[Sascha Franck]

Why do you need top modeling if you plan to use a real amp anyway?

 

[jellodog]

Why did you get the nano cortex to supplement your fractal? This is sorta where I am, supplementing my Zoom with a ToneX. But the fractal should be good enough that a NC is not an improvement?

I didn't buy the Nano Cortex because I thought it would somehow best the Fractal unit.

I don't gig. The Axe-Fx III sits in one place attached to my primary set of KH 120 monitors and never moves. In fact it would be annoying to frequently move it. I love it; It sounds amazing.

No, I bought the Nano as a portable device that I can take to another part of the house for a bit of fun and comfortable silent practice with headphones. I've played sat on the bed and I've played with it sat in random spots on the floor. There are other Genelec monitors and an FR-10 in other rooms too! It does sound great through the Neumanns though - of course I tried it.

But there are other reasons to buy another device: I'm also a total gear Wh*re...

So I was just curious about the Nano. I wanted to also have a non-component-modelling device. I already own the best component modelled device, so I wanted something that took a different approach.

I bought the NC for what it is - I accept the simple fixed chain and like the reverb and only delay that's built in. It has some good factory captures, (the Diesel VH4 was a surprise - I didn't think I would ever be interested in that amp), but I also bought a handful of Amalgam Audio QC captures too, which I'd been experimenting with on my M1 MacBook within the NAM player. And I already own a ton of York Audio IRs.

Anyway, I'm loving it! It's a bit like going on holiday for a change of scene. It's different. It's plug and play. It doesn't do everything, but it does enough for my simple needs.

HOWEVER...

If I had to buy only one smaller all-in-one device with XLR outs, headphones, excellent amp models and effects today, with everything in the box, then I'd still buy an FM3. And if you have the budget, the FM9 is the goldilocks device.