Small form Delay w/ MIDI?

[Alex Kenivel]

What do you have? What do you like? I have space for a 1590B-sized pedal on my berd and am thinking offloading delay duties from my HX Stomp.

Ideally I'd want something that can do a slap back in a millisecond amount and a tap tempo quarter note in the same preset/mode/whatever (for leads). Something with presets/modes so I can use my MIDI controllers to call up different presets/modes/whatevers for low-feedback 8th note triplets, infinite feedback, runaway occilations reminiscent of spaceships taking off.

No real budget but idk if I could bring myself to spend $400 on a pedal!

 

[2112]

New Strymon Brig? Tiny, has midi & various TT subdivisions. No display to enter exact delay times though.

 

[Sascha Franck]

A Zoom MS-50G might be an idea. Two things, though:
- No dry through and no true bypass, so you'll be dealing with the additional latency at all times once it's in the signal chain. However, latency is astonishingly low (I measured it once, was around somewhat less than 1.5ms, could repeat the measuring).
- No direct MIDI access, you will need some MIDI-to-USB adapter. But once you got that, it should be pretty straight (there's plenty of videos about it, from what I remember) and these days, it should be easy to get a working adapter.

On the upside, you might be able to offload quite some duties from your Stomp, FX quality is still really nice. I was using it as my only "spatial FX" (delay/verb) unit for around 1-2 years exclusively and never missed anything in terms of quality. In fact, there's some FX you can't get in HX land.
Form factor is Boss-size, so just a little more than 1590B.

 

[Sascha Franck]

And fwiw, with the Stomp, you could run the MS-50G in a "mix" loop, hence only adding latency to the effected signal (you can set all delays and verbs to 100% wet).

Another possible downside I didn't mention yet: Tap Tempo seems to only be possible with the onboard switch, not via MIDI. But in case your switching happens via MIDI, you could leave it in Tap Tempo mode all the time.

 

[Alex Kenivel]

New Strymon Brig? Tiny, has midi & various TT subdivisions. No display to enter exact delay times though.

I like the looks and the sounds of this. Reading the manual it looks like when using MIDI the Time knob only changes subdivisions and not milliseconds? No getting oscillating spaceship sounds that way.. Unless I'm reading it wrong:

While synced to MIDI Clock, you can optionally use the TIME knob to
select a TAP DIVISION for the incoming clock tempo. The options
available, from minimum to maximum on the knob, are:
TRIPLET, EIGHTH, DOTTED EIGHTH, and QUARTER note.

I know it says "optionally" but isn't very clear.

Also interesting..

NOTE: When EXP/MIDI jack is set to MIDI mode, connecting a cable into the
EXP/MIDI jack will set the pedal to Buffered Bypass.

Im a fan of true bypass

 

[Alex Kenivel]

no true bypass

No go.. I did look up some demos and noticed that a lot of the delays just STOP when you move the Time knob - no spaceships

Cool little pedal nonetheless

 

[laxu]

I like the looks and the sounds of this. Reading the manual it looks like when using MIDI the Time knob only changes subdivisions and not milliseconds? No getting oscillating spaceship sounds that way.. Unless I'm reading it wrong:



I know it says "optionally" but isn't very clear.

Also interesting..

The key words here are "while synced to MIDI clock". MIDI clock is basically just saying "hey, this other device is telling you what bpm is set".

Nothing says you have to send the device MIDI clock.

Otherwise Strymon pedals accept any control values as standard MIDI CC 0-127. So just saying "set Time knob to value 64" is same as if you turned the physical knob to noon.

 

[Alex Kenivel]

The key words here are "while synced to MIDI clock". MIDI clock is basically just saying "hey, this other device is telling you what bpm is set".

I get that, but if I want to tap in a tempo and then make it rise or fall in pitch by manipulating the knobs? Guess I could set up a different preset for that? I'd rather not..

 

[laxu]

I get that, but if I want to tap in a tempo and then make it rise or fall in pitch by manipulating the knobs? Guess I could set up a different preset for that? I'd rather not..

You don't need to use MIDI clock for that. MIDI CC 93 on pretty much any Strymon pedal with Tap Tempo will work as if you were tapping the footswitch.

Another way to do it would be to send MIDI clock first, then stop sending MIDI clock and I think it should revert back to normal knob behavior. On older Strymons they support setting MIDI clock on/off via MIDI CC on a per preset basis but on the Brig it seems it's more automatic.

 

[Alex Kenivel]

You don't need to use MIDI clock for that. MIDI CC 93 on pretty much any Strymon pedal with Tap Tempo will work as if you were tapping the footswitch.

Another way to do it would be to send MIDI clock first, then stop sending MIDI clock and I think it should revert back to normal knob behavior. On older Strymons they support setting MIDI clock on/off via MIDI CC on a per preset basis but on the Brig it seems it's more automatic.

I see it now, CC93 for tap in the manual. The only thing putting me off is buffered bypass - not sure how big of a deal that would be. I'd be running it in the loop of the Stomp: HX Send > King of Drive > MT15 preamp > Delay > HX Return.

It's been a long time since I cared about individual pedals to remember what exactly I do or don't like about TB/BB

 

[Alex Kenivel]

MIDI clock is basically just saying "hey, this other device is telling you what bpm is set".

MIDI CC 93 on pretty much any Strymon pedal with Tap Tempo will work as if you were tapping the footswitch.

These both read the same. Perhaps my understanding is a bit off, but isn't tapping a tempo from another device in fact using MIDI clock?

 

[Sascha Franck]

I did look up some demos and noticed that a lot of the delays just STOP when you move the Time knob

Yeah, true. No real spillover, either (only in case you stay within one patch).

Cool little pedal nonetheless

IMO, after all these years, still one of the best bangs for the buck, I wish they'd come up with an updated version (real MIDI support, 1-4 EXP inputs, a little more horsepower to allow for things such as spillover and what not). I bet it'd sell like hot cakes.

 

[laxu]

These both read the same. Perhaps my understanding is a bit off, but isn't tapping a tempo from another device in fact using MIDI clock?

Not really. Using the MIDI CC is like replicating what e.g the tap tempo switch on my Volante would do, you just move that switch to whatever MIDI controller you use.

With MIDI clock the idea is more like having a master clock that sets the bpm for multiple pedals for example.

The only thing putting me off is buffered bypass - not sure how big of a deal that would be.

No need to even think about it. Strymons have excellent buffers. I have my Compadre set to buffered bypass mode to act as an input buffer at all times and I run my Volante and Nightsky in buffered bypass for trails too.

 

[Alex Kenivel]

The Brig reminds me of my OG Carbon Copy.

I need to see if I can try one!

 

[Orvillain]

The only thing putting me off is buffered bypass

It is honestly fine. You'll read a lot of nonsense from the Pete Cornish ball-hangers. But the Strymon buffers are GREAT.

 

[Orvillain]

New Strymon Brig? Tiny, has midi & various TT subdivisions. No display to enter exact delay times though.

Leon, do you need a Midi I/O box to use midi with the Brig???

 

[2112]

Leon, do you need a Midi I/O box to use midi with the Brig???

I've got a Midi to TRS cable from either my Airstep or Fractal sending midi to it.

 

[Sascha Franck]

The only thing putting me off is buffered bypass

As @Orvillain said, there's a lot of myths spread around that. It's really just a handful of pedals causing issues in a buffered signal path (usually fuzzes but also some other drive units), but usually they would sit in a position before the signal hits the delay, so that's not an issue anymore. And as soon as the signal is buffered once, I'd almost take a bet it's almost impossible to tell whether a following pedal adds its own buffer or not.

 

[laxu]

As @Orvillain said, there's a lot of myths spread around that. It's really just a handful of pedals causing issues in a buffered signal path (usually fuzzes but also some other drive units), but usually they would sit in a position before the signal hits the delay, so that's not an issue anymore. And as soon as the signal is buffered once, I'd almost take a bet it's almost impossible to tell whether a following pedal adds its own buffer or not.

Buffers are also not built equal. I'd expect most pedals to be pretty good in this regard but "tone sucking buffers" are true of some older pedals so they got a bad rap, everything went to true bypass.

And then people figured out that hey, maybe at least an input buffer is a good idea when your chain of 10 true bypass pedals just sucked all high end out of your tone.

 

[Alex Kenivel]

The HX Stomp is already sucking some tone that I offset with global eq...I guess it wouldn't be a big deal either way