Santiago Alvarez (electronics engineer, JVM, YJM, AFD...)

Could it be that HotRats issues stem from the same thing the TSL was suffering from? The PCB of those amps seemed to be made inferior, so that over time, when warming up the amplifier, the substrate between the PCB sides would become conductive:



I have no idea, but I read some comments where people were starting stuff like "the JVM suffers from the same issue, MARK MY WORDS" and other hyperbole language. I could imagine, IF that's true, that your device might be affected by that? I have no idea, if this is actually true and if that's the culprit of your issues, but just want to throw this in here for you to check.
 
No, those sounds came from the amp alone and all the issues I had happened with or without the pedal board connected.

As a further reference, I have to add that the first issue I had, with the original tubes, was a complete tube failure with wired noises, static, loud hum, power loss and so on.
The amp gave no signs of potential issues before the meltdown. I turned it in on and it was like that.

This time I get a brief intermittent loss of power that appears once the amp is warmed up and happens randomly every few minutes. Between the power losses the amp sounds perfectly fine.

Looking at the tubes I don't see strange glows, they illuminate correctly, evenly and just like the brand new tubes.

This morning , as a test, I've put on the "dead" tubes again and after few minutes ai got the power loss again therefore the issue is in the tubes (the cause unknown).

Since these tubes come form a JJ matched quartet that had a microphonic el34 right out of the box, I'm inclined to believe I've encountered a bad el34 batch.

I have no amp tech I trust near me (unfortunately the one I had died few years ago) therefore I'll wait and see what happens with these brand new tubes.

If they'll fail in the near future it will be proof that there's something else going on.

Thank you for your patience and support.
yeah, good luck with it but, as said, tubes are tubes. That they are new or matched doesn't guarantee anything (sadly I have to say), also, these low power amps don't stress the tubes at all so most likely you got a couple of faulty ones.
Fingers crossed that the bad luck with the tubes is gone and there is nothing else with the amp!
 
Could it be that HotRats issues stem from the same thing the TSL was suffering from? The PCB of those amps seemed to be made inferior, so that over time, when warming up the amplifier, the substrate between the PCB sides would become conductive:



I have no idea, but I read some comments where people were starting stuff like "the JVM suffers from the same issue, MARK MY WORDS" and other hyperbole language. I could imagine, IF that's true, that your device might be affected by that? I have no idea, if this is actually true and if that's the culprit of your issues, but just want to throw this in here for you to check.

I doubt as Hotrats amp has cathode bias, it is acompletely different to those JCM2000 amps, who knows... but the noises in the video to me look more like tube issues, arcing inside or the likes.

The original DSL and TSL series had a very poorly designed bias circuit, inherited from the JCM900 and 6100 series but it seemed to be particualrly bad in the JCM2000s... it is not the pcb but the circuit design as once the bias is gone, things get too hot, things start arcing, etc. The pcb material is the same as in anything else but if the design is bad... I can understand people saying that the "pcb quality is bad" because they see it burnt but you are killing the messenger so to say, the "poor pcb" has enough to try to stand conditions for which it hasn't been designed.

The JVM series, and for that matter, any other marshall apart from those designs from the 90s, don't have any 'bias drift' issues. I think all the amps designed from the early 2000 till today have the same bias circuit as you can find in a 1959 and plenty of other amps in the market, a simple circuit.
 
Wow, I’ve learned quite a bit reading through this thread. Thanks so much for all the great info and anecdotes, @santiall !

Was going to do a few mods to my recently bought 410H, but now, it just doesn’t seem worth the bother.

Likewise, I was worried that the parallel/series loop was problematic somehow (drastically affecting volume and/or tone, as some claim…), but again, it looks like that shouldn’t be a problem either. Will try it at line level though (i.e., the +4dB setting).
 
Wow, I’ve learned quite a bit reading through this thread. Thanks so much for all the great info and anecdotes, @santiall !

Was going to do a few mods to my recently bought 410H, but now, it just doesn’t seem worth the bother.

Likewise, I was worried that the parallel/series loop was problematic somehow (drastically affecting volume and/or tone, as some claim…), but again, it looks like that shouldn’t be a problem either. Will try it at line level though (i.e., the +4dB setting).
hi, glad to know that this thread is of some use! :cool:

the loop should be OK, the first known issue is the volume drop when the MIX is set to 100%, which can be worse if the FX loop tube ihas low gain. If you keep the loop ON all the time, or the external effect is able to compensate the drop, you'll be perfectly OK. The second known issue was me/Marshall not being aware of people not knowing how to use a parallel loop :whistle
 
I doubt as Hotrats amp has cathode bias, it is acompletely different to those JCM2000 amps, who knows... but the noises in the video to me look more like tube issues, arcing inside or the likes.

The original DSL and TSL series had a very poorly designed bias circuit, inherited from the JCM900 and 6100 series but it seemed to be particualrly bad in the JCM2000s... it is not the pcb but the circuit design as once the bias is gone, things get too hot, things start arcing, etc. The pcb material is the same as in anything else but if the design is bad... I can understand people saying that the "pcb quality is bad" because they see it burnt but you are killing the messenger so to say, the "poor pcb" has enough to try to stand conditions for which it hasn't been designed.

The JVM series, and for that matter, any other marshall apart from those designs from the 90s, don't have any 'bias drift' issues. I think all the amps designed from the early 2000 till today have the same bias circuit as you can find in a 1959 and plenty of other amps in the market, a simple circuit.

Thanks for your take on this - I was basing the PCB thing based on this video, where somebody is applying heat and seeing the Resistance drop across a certain spot in the amp:



The internet seems to be full of the claims that the PCB material actually is faulty, and applying heat makes the substrate slightly conductive. I have NO idea however if that is true or people are just full of it. Marshall support just gave me a generic reply as in "Hi, only solution is replacing it, but boards are not prodfuced, so nothing we can do, bye!"

I have applied a fix shared in this video on a TSL100 and just at this moment watching if the bias is rising. so far, within 30 minutes of activity, the bias has risen from ~75 to 85 per side...


ANYHOW, this a Santiago Alvarez AMA thread, and I don't want to hijack your thread for this, as you had no involvement on the TSL100. IF you have any other info which might be useful, I'd be super grateful though and then leave it as is afterwards :-)
 
Thanks for your take on this - I was basing the PCB thing based on this video, where somebody is applying heat and seeing the Resistance drop across a certain spot in the amp:



The internet seems to be full of the claims that the PCB material actually is faulty, and applying heat makes the substrate slightly conductive. I have NO idea however if that is true or people are just full of it. Marshall support just gave me a generic reply as in "Hi, only solution is replacing it, but boards are not prodfuced, so nothing we can do, bye!"

I have applied a fix shared in this video on a TSL100 and just at this moment watching if the bias is rising. so far, within 30 minutes of activity, the bias has risen from ~75 to 85 per side...


ANYHOW, this a Santiago Alvarez AMA thread, and I don't want to hijack your thread for this, as you had no involvement on the TSL100. IF you have any other info which might be useful, I'd be super grateful though and then leave it as is afterwards :-)

Hey, no "hijacking" any thread at all, that's why is called 'ask me anything', no 'only write here to tell me how great I am!' (you can do that too btw :rofl)

ok, jokes apart, DSL, TSL... what I know, and this is based on my experience and not on what I read out there, there are a couple of fundamental issues with that amp. One is that the bias circuit is designed with some capacitors in series with the bias winding so you depend on those electrolytic capacitors to have your bias voltage. Electrolytics are well known for having huge tolerances, extremely poor temperature stability, they dry over time and, in general, don't like to be stressed for long time. Second issue seems to be that the clearances between pcb tracks aren't as good as they should be, which usually isn't a problem in itself but when you add heat issues it doesn't help

Unfortunately your DSL/TSL bias is made that way and over time you will suffer those variations as 'drifts' and this is a design issue. So what happens when your bias drifts to positive or fails: the amp becomes too hot because the output tubes start drawing more and more current. If you are lucky, you'll burn fuses but if not, or that takes long what happens is that you start stressing the pcb in this case. When the pcb tracks are too thin or are too close to the hot spots of the power tubes, or any combination or those factors, you will "cook" the pcb, which is made of some sort of substrate, probably fibergalss and some sort of polimer to glue all together. When you overcook it, it carbonizes and becomes conductive. Is this that the pcb material is bad?, not at all, is that you are using it under conditions it hasn't been designed for and, over time, it fails.

just ask yourself why none of any other amps and any other electronics fail: just because they are not designed like that, they have a 'normal' bias circuit that is reliable and stable, it should actually be the latest circuit to fail in the whole amp. Now don't ask why Marshall started using this in the early 90s, no idea but my 6100 failed so many times that I ended replacing the bias with a 'plug-in' circuit just to make sure it didn't happen again. The JCM900s seems to be more reliable in this sense.

You know, the main issue with this internet thing, is that people read that "bias drift" thingy and then everything becomes a "bias drift". I have had few people over the years claiming that their amp had a bias drift and it was a power tube failure that had taken a coupling capacitor with it, making the amp impossible to bias. Is this a bias drift?, no, it is a power tube failure with colaterals. Like if you blow a car tyre, crash and you blame the steering system.

long brick of test again, hope you made it to the car crash bit!
 
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