Reverb & delay - Helix vs Fractal

[mikah912]

I’d put the Meris Mercury in here as well for great sounding weird stuff and large spaces with interesting character.

Obviously YMMV.

Keeping it a buck, I think the Meris Mercury 7 reverb is THAT DUDE. Those choir/cathedra/infinite modulation effects are sooooo damn cool and musical sounding.

Stadium - hopefully - will be aiming to have more than a few of those algorithms.

 

[Orvillain]

Helix can already switch up to (I think?) 4 devices with the switching outs. Were you thinking more with tying that into the automation stuff?

TBH the switching is one of the few threads keeping the current device here.


I’d put the Meris Mercury in here as well for great sounding weird stuff and large spaces with interesting character.

Obviously YMMV.

I thought I did tbh

 

[EOengineer]

I thought I did tbh

We will just say you did. Your comments on the Mercury were at least in part responsible for my chasing one down so I figured you intended to put that in the list.

 

[Karl Houseknecht]

Helix can already switch up to (I think?) 4 devices with the switching outs.

And there are issues with those relays that introduce noise in some amps. The current Helix implementation is almost useless because of it.

 

[EOengineer]

And there are issues with those relays that introduce noise in some amps. The current Helix implementation is almost useless because of it.

I’ve read some of that but never experienced it across a half dozen amps I’ve used under Helix control.

Have you experienced it? I’d expect ground loops could certainly be a very real possibility.

Hopefully they can isolate those better on Stadium if it’s widespread. I guess I’m just lucky.

 

[Karl Houseknecht]

I’ve read some of that but never experienced it across a half dozen amps I’ve used under Helix control.

Have you experienced it?

Yes. With both a Boogie Mark V and a Friedman Twin Sister.

 

[synthpenguin]

So, if you were to buy a reverb pedal to stick in a Helix FX loop as an upgrade, what would you get if you mainly wanted good room and plate reverb (hall would be a bonus), and wanted true stereo (input, output, and reverb itself), the ability to go 100% wet, and MIDI control.... and for around or less than 450USD / 400EUR / 350GBP?

Source Audio Ventris & Collider seem like the top choices in this price range, right? I was pretty impressed with their True Spring pedal, and the Ventris sounded better to me in some comparisons against the Big Sky (original model) that I watched.

I know the Golden is very popular and sounds amazing, but I'd want MIDI control. Neunaber ILLUMINE sounded great in the Leon Todd video too, though it's a little more, and breaking that 450USD mark I start to think about more versatile multifx options*. Mercury7 sounds very cool and the price is right, but the lack of a room reverb makes it iffy for me, and (if I understand correctly) it only has MIDI with their 90USD MIDI I/O box, so it's not actually much cheaper.

*I was looking at the VP4 before, justifying the price by it being able to replace a few of my pre FX, but losing stereo to be able to use it pre and post made me a little reluctant, especially considering the size.

 

[laxu]

So, if you were to buy a reverb pedal to stick in a Helix FX loop as an upgrade, what would you get if you mainly wanted good room and plate reverb (hall would be a bonus), and wanted true stereo (input, output, and reverb itself), the ability to go 100% wet, and MIDI control.... and for around or less than 450USD / 400EUR / 350GBP?

Source Audio Ventris & Collider seem like the top choices in this price range, right? I was pretty impressed with their True Spring pedal, and the Ventris sounded better to me in some comparisons against the Big Sky (original model) that I watched.

I know the Golden is very popular and sounds amazing, but I'd want MIDI control. Neunaber ILLUMINE sounded great in the Leon Todd video too, though it's a little more, and breaking that 450USD mark I start to think about more versatile multifx options*. Mercury7 sounds very cool and the price is right, but the lack of a room reverb makes it iffy for me, and (if I understand correctly) it only has MIDI with their 90USD MIDI I/O box, so it's not actually much cheaper.

*I was looking at the VP4 before, justifying the price by it being able to replace a few of my pre FX, but losing stereo to be able to use it pre and post made me a little reluctant, especially considering the size.

The Collider is great especially for reverbs, and much more streamlined than Ventris. The delays are good, but I stil prefer Strymon.

 

[dk_ace]

So, if you were to buy a reverb pedal to stick in a Helix FX loop as an upgrade, what would you get if you mainly wanted good room and plate reverb (hall would be a bonus), and wanted true stereo (input, output, and reverb itself), the ability to go 100% wet, and MIDI control.... and for around or less than 450USD / 400EUR / 350GBP?

Source Audio Ventris & Collider seem like the top choices in this price range, right? I was pretty impressed with their True Spring pedal, and the Ventris sounded better to me in some comparisons against the Big Sky (original model) that I watched.

I know the Golden is very popular and sounds amazing, but I'd want MIDI control. Neunaber ILLUMINE sounded great in the Leon Todd video too, though it's a little more, and breaking that 450USD mark I start to think about more versatile multifx options*. Mercury7 sounds very cool and the price is right, but the lack of a room reverb makes it iffy for me, and (if I understand correctly) it only has MIDI with their 90USD MIDI I/O box, so it's not actually much cheaper.

*I was looking at the VP4 before, justifying the price by it being able to replace a few of my pre FX, but losing stereo to be able to use it pre and post made me a little reluctant, especially considering the size.

I chose the Ventris and used it for a few years. It’s fantastic.

The M7 is great as well, but a bit more limited in the scope of what it can do. I had that and Ventris at the same time for a while and was able to duplicate my favorite M7 sounds in Ventris rolling my own in the editor that gives you more advanced control. I never used it with midi, can’t comment on that.

VP4 didn’t exist back then. It’s probably the better choice now due to all the other amazing things it can do although it is outside of your budget. For a small, Uber powerful, relatively affordable, midi powered dedicated reverb pedal it is hard to beat Ventris.

I have not played illumine, but Neunaber does great reverb so I’m sure it’s good.

D

 

[Orvillain]

but I'd want MIDI control.

In that case, unfortunately.... I can't recommend anything Source Audio. Their algorithms are amazing. Top of the league. But their midi implementation, spillover, and preset switching, is all really poor. Audio dropouts, tails disappearing, weird midi clock issues with the Nemesis, etc etc.

 

[dk_ace]

In that case, unfortunately.... I can't recommend anything Source Audio. Their algorithms are amazing. Top of the league. But their midi implementation, spillover, and preset switching, is all really poor. Audio dropouts, tails disappearing, weird midi clock issues with the Nemesis, etc etc.

I only controlled Ventris with midi in Helix, never had any issues with it as long as I had my sounds configured correctly for spillover, tails, etc.

D

 

[synthpenguin]

The Collider is great especially for reverbs, and much more streamlined than Ventris. The delays are good, but I stil prefer Strymon.

Thanks! Yeah, the delays on the Collider would more just be a bonus (and so I'd maybe go with the Ventris instead). It being a bit cheaper and me not really needing dual reverbs interested me though.

I chose the Ventris and used it for a few years. It’s fantastic.

The M7 is great as well, but a bit more limited in the scope of what it can do. I had that and Ventris at the same time for a while and was able to duplicate my favorite M7 sounds in Ventris rolling my own in the editor that gives you more advanced control. I never used it with midi, can’t comment on that.

VP4 didn’t exist back then. It’s probably the better choice now due to all the other amazing things it can do although it is outside of your budget. For a small, Uber powerful, relatively affordable, midi powered dedicated reverb pedal it is hard to beat Ventris.

I have not played illumine, but Neunaber does great reverb so I’m sure it’s good.

D

All great to hear, thank you! The Ventris seems like a strong contender, then...

In that case, unfortunately.... I can't recommend anything Source Audio. Their algorithms are amazing. Top of the league. But their midi implementation, spillover, and preset switching, is all really poor. Audio dropouts, tails disappearing, weird midi clock issues with the Nemesis, etc etc.

...but oof, really? That's a shame, but good to know. I never used the MIDI on the True Spring since that one required their hub to add MIDI functionality, so I had no idea (though I did have a lot of connectivity issues with their app, especially before they updated it). Hmm. I'll have to look closer at the Illumine I guess, and maybe reconsider the VP4.

Thank you very much!

 

[synthpenguin]

I only controlled Ventris with midi in Helix, never had any issues with it as long as I had my sounds configured correctly for spillover, tails, etc.

D

Oh, interesting. @Orvillain did ya have those issues with the Ventris (or Collider) too, or specifically the Nemesis? Thanks!

 

[Frodebro]

Yes. With both a Boogie Mark V and a Friedman Twin Sister.

Had the same issue with my Mark V. Major ground loop hum.

 

[Orvillain]

Oh, interesting. @Orvillain did ya have those issues with the Ventris (or Collider) too, or specifically the Nemesis? Thanks!

I've still got a Nemesis. I'll double check myself.

I only controlled Ventris with midi in Helix, never had any issues with it as long as I had my sounds configured correctly for spillover, tails, etc.

D

When I had one it wasn't smooth sailing at all. Maybe they improved it in recent years??? What did you have to do to configure it?? When I used it, spillover levels were all over the place, audio drop-outs when changing presets, and the whole thing just seemed generally quite fragile.

 

[dk_ace]

I've still got a Nemesis. I'll double check myself.


When I had one it wasn't smooth sailing at all. Maybe they improved it in recent years??? What did you have to do to configure it?? When I used it, spillover levels were all over the place, audio drop-outs when changing presets, and the whole thing just seemed generally quite fragile.

You have to do it in the app on Ventris. Both the preset you are coming from and going to must have spillover turned on. You have control over whether or not to kill reverb send on spillover and the length of time for the spillover to last.

As long as you remember to turn that on, it always worked as expected for me.

I don’t see those options in the collider or nemesis, so they probably can’t do this.

I don’t know how long Ventris had this, for at least a few years though.

D

 

[synthpenguin]

I've still got a Nemesis. I'll double check myself.

Thank you! I appreciate it.

I don’t see those options in the collider or nemesis, so they probably can’t do this.

Oh, very good to know. If that’s the difference, then I’d definitely get the Ventris over the Collider (or I’d get the VP4, which I’m looking at again, unfortunately… lol)

 

[laxu]

Thanks! Yeah, the delays on the Collider would more just be a bonus (and so I'd maybe go with the Ventris instead). It being a bit cheaper and me not really needing dual reverbs interested me though.

Collider can be used as dual reverb or dual delay. You can "unlock" the engine for either side and then use it as two delays or two reverbs, any type, each with its own settings.

The Collider options are very much cut down compared to the Ventris and Nemesis, so the editor is mainly for preset management rather than additional controls. But that does make it an easier pedal to work with when there's not much hidden.

I wish SA had brought the Binson Echorec models from the Nemesis to the Collider. In its current form the Tape algorithm is not quite as good as my Strymon Volante or El Cap.

I haven't run into any MIDI issues with the Collider, but my needs are generally simple preset switching. I have clock sync on and it seemed to work as expected so maybe these have been fixed with fw updates?

BTW, anyone who wants to try the SA effects, you can just install the latest Neuro Editor. It now has sound clips that will play and you can mess with all the effects controls and hear how it sounds even without owning the pedal.

One thing you can't do in the editor is check the options menus where you have extra settings on the pedal. The pedal needs to be connected for that. You can check the manual for those instead.