Painting yourself into a corner with multi-fx

[JT]

Oh that's our 2nd guitarist. He was using Helix like me for ages, but decided to try the QC. He keeps saying he misses the Helix!

 

[Orvillain]

I cannot get behind the Plethora. Not for Behringer reasons, either. It just looks like it's going to be clunky and bland. For whatever reason.

What does it is I got a Flashback II X4 earlier in the year, and I discovered recently that I legitimately FUCKING LOVE IT. Honestly think it is one of the best delay pedals out there, gives a Timeline a run for its money, and makes the DD-500 look like shite.

 

[JT]

What does it is I got a Flashback II X4 earlier in the year, and I discovered recently that I legitimately f*****g LOVE IT. Honestly think it is one of the best delay pedals out there, gives a Timeline a run for its money, and makes the DD-500 look like shite.

Nice. Being a fan of Boss FX; I'm obviously not averse to my own private vanilla tones

 

[Orvillain]

Nice. Being a fan of Boss FX; I'm obviously not averse to my own private vanilla tones

I love my DD-8. I just think the DD500 is really ... I dunno, a bit meh and has some serious design flaws - no soft clipping on the output so when you crank the feedback to get oscillations, it eventually starts to clip the DAC and sounds like grilled dick. Then you've got the terrible implementation of series/parallel with the a+b simultaneous mode. Running them in series doesn't give you the correct delay times that you would get when running any two delay pedals in series. It is poppycock!

 

[JT]

I love my DD-8. I just think the DD500 is really ... I dunno, a bit meh and has some serious design flaws - no soft clipping on the output so when you crank the feedback to get oscillations, it eventually starts to clip the DAC and sounds like grilled dick. Then you've got the terrible implementation of series/parallel with the a+b simultaneous mode. Running them in series doesn't give you the correct delay times that you would get when running any two delay pedals in series. It is poppycock!

Boss and Terrible Implementation=Hand in Hand

 

[the swede]

I just think the DD500 is really ... I dunno, a bit meh and has some serious design flaws - no soft clipping on the output so when you crank the feedback to get oscillations, it eventually starts to clip the DAC and sounds like grilled dick.

Helix is kinda good in this regard, in that it’s easy to manage and control the behavior when pushed into craziness… with reverbs and delays.

 

[Orvillain]

Helix is kinda good in this regard, in that it’s easy to manage and control the behavior when pushed into craziness… with reverbs and delays.

Absolutely! On Helix I do all this delay oscillation stuff that sounds killer, and there are very few pedals that can achieve it. I got some cool shit with the Flashback pedal though!

 

[la szum]

Nowadays I would love to move over to a singles based board, so I can pick and choose my favourite effects from the different companies, so I can benefit from more flexible midi options out there (GigRig, Morningstar, etc), and so I can minimize the number of buffers and AD/DA stages that my signal goes through.

But bloody hell, with the Helix as my main effects platform (not using the amps for my live stuff) I have really painted myself into a corner.

Anyone else get this, and how do you get out??

I was using a Fractal with outboard/external time-based effects and a looper and the latency ended up being a deal-breaker.
Not sure what the numbers would say if it was measured, but I could feel it, and there was less immediacy in my playback
and what I was hearing/monitoring as I played live. Felt like I was a touch late on everything. Milliseconds matter.

For that setup, and application, I am back to using a pair of tube amps. I don't think the Fractal on its own was a dealbreaker,
as much as the cumulative effect of pairing with other pedals bringing their own AD/DA stages to the party.

 

[la szum]

I love my DD-8. I just think the DD500 is really ... I dunno, a bit meh and has some serious design flaws - no soft clipping on the output so when you crank the feedback to get oscillations, it eventually starts to clip the DAC and sounds like grilled dick. Then you've got the terrible implementation of series/parallel with the a+b simultaneous mode. Running them in series doesn't give you the correct delay times that you would get when running any two delay pedals in series. It is poppycock!

Grilled dick!!

Stealing!!

 

[Orvillain]

I was using a Fractal with outboard/external time-based effects and a looper and the latency ended up being a deal-breaker.
Not sure what the numbers would say if it was measured, but I could feel it, and there was less immediacy in my playback
and what I was hearing/monitoring as I played live. Felt like I was a touch late on everything. Milliseconds matter.

For that setup, and application, I am back to using a pair of tube amps.

Wow! Okay, that surprises me! Was it the Axe III??

I've tried my Axe III in front of the VH4 a few times, and it always felt okay. But I never measured the latency.

I do feel latency with Helix whenever I try 4-cable-method, but luckily 4cm isn't essential for me.

 

[la szum]

Wow! Okay, that surprises me! Was it the Axe III??

I've tried my Axe III in front of the VH4 a few times, and it always felt okay. But I never measured the latency.

I do feel latency with Helix whenever I try 4-cable-method, but luckily 4cm isn't essential for me.

FM3, which inherently has a tad more latency than the Axe-Fx III.

Like I mentioned, stand alone not noticeable. But I like to use loops and a digital delay
and digital reverb live. The cumulative latency became problematic.

 

[Orvillain]

FM3, which inherently has a tad more latency than the Axe-Fx III.

Like I mentioned, stand alone not noticeable. But I like to use loops and a digital delay
and digital reverb live. The cumulative latency became problematic.

And the great thing with a loop switcher like the G3 is you can take stuff out of the signal path and completely avoid that when you need to.

 

[la szum]

And the great thing with a loop switcher like the G3 is you can take stuff out of the signal path and completely avoid that when you need to.

Yup. Not there.

Yet.

 

[Orvillain]

Nor me. But I will get there!

 

[the swede]

And the great thing with a loop switcher like the G3 is you can take stuff out of the signal path and completely avoid that when you need to.

Back in -14 to -17 when I was playing in band I used their smaller slimmer loop switcher. Worked really good and I liked the mode when you press one switch (loop) it deactivated another switch (loop). I was usually in that mode but some loops had multiple pedals… in a way it’s much like how snapshots turned out in the digital realm. They make good stuff for sure. The “G” stuff is amazing in what it can do with pedals and midi.

 

[7 Dying Trees]

I got myself outbwhen my eyesight went downhill and i couldn't read a gforce display. Then decided I liked twiddling knobs...

Expense though, with all the midi switchers, increased board size, but it's now so quick for me to tweak settings, program patches that I'm glad I did

 

[Digital Igloo]

Nowadays I would love to move over to a singles based board, so I can pick and choose my favourite effects from the different companies, so I can benefit from more flexible midi options out there (GigRig, Morningstar, etc), and so I can minimize the number of buffers and AD/DA stages that my signal goes through.

But bloody hell, with the Helix as my main effects platform (not using the amps for my live stuff) I have really painted myself into a corner.

Anyone else get this, and how do you get out??

We haven't revisited this messaging in years, but when Helix was first announced, we went to great pains to stress it wasn't designed to replace your rig; it was designed to be the centerpiece of your rig. That's why we give you four effects loops and the Command Center.

 

[Orvillain]

We haven't revisited this messaging in years, but when Helix was first announced, we went to great pains to stress it wasn't designed to replace your rig; it was designed to be the centerpiece of your rig. That's why we give you four effects loops and the Command Center.

Yeah definitely. And I have run it that way before, you may recall I did videos on YT comparing the Strymon effects (in the loops) to the Helix effects, and they compared favourably!

Used Helix for my main live rig for coming up to ... gosh... 2016.... so what? 7 years? Something like that. And it is great. The unit has actually defined a bunch of tones for me that I basically use as my litmus test for any other gear. Never thought I'd say that tbh.

I guess I'm just in a grass is greener period, hence the subject. Why not both indeed!! I've got plenty of pedals, but don't have any alternative command centre.

 

[TubeStack]

We haven't revisited this messaging in years, but when Helix was first announced, we went to great pains to stress it wasn't designed to replace your rig; it was designed to be the centerpiece of your rig. That's why we give you four effects loops and the Command Center.

I love this about L6 messaging and general vibe. Everyone's accepted and all gear is fun. Throw in an HX device with your board or with an amp, or use it on its own, it's all cool.

Fractal has this “eventually you'll see the error of your ways and come around to 100% modelling” vibe that can be off-putting.

 

[7 Dying Trees]

What does it is I got a Flashback II X4 earlier in the year, and I discovered recently that I legitimately f*****g LOVE IT. Honestly think it is one of the best delay pedals out there, gives a Timeline a run for its money, and makes the DD-500 look like shite.

I got a flashback X4 and same thing, love it. I had a timeline, hated it. The flashback is rad, and you have a few presets, and, toneprint is frwaking awesome!

Plethora looks cool, basically toneprint the fuck out of it and just set your own multi fx up, so I was thinking of one as the TC stuff is really good for the money these days