JiveTurkey
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Strawberry cakes>>>>>>>>>>>pickles
Orange Pedal Baby / other Class A/B + Modeller (FM3) ?
- Thread starter jellodog
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jellodog
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Epilogue:
Still interested in semi-decent but affordable Class A/B, however I finally had some success this evening using the FM3 into the Amp1 FX return and I liked what I heard.
Sounds very close to my Bella + pedalboard now. Bella is still more authoritative though. No surprise there - it's a tube amp with big bottles and big iron.
Why am I doing all this? I'd just like to eliminate one or the other. But also... until I find the the right playback / output system for the FM3 - have I ever heard it properly yet?
Ach. Time for bed. Well at least I enjoyed some time playing guitar this evening, despite the existential gear questions.
Still interested in semi-decent but affordable Class A/B, however I finally had some success this evening using the FM3 into the Amp1 FX return and I liked what I heard.
Sounds very close to my Bella + pedalboard now. Bella is still more authoritative though. No surprise there - it's a tube amp with big bottles and big iron.
Why am I doing all this? I'd just like to eliminate one or the other. But also... until I find the the right playback / output system for the FM3 - have I ever heard it properly yet?
Ach. Time for bed. Well at least I enjoyed some time playing guitar this evening, despite the existential gear questions.
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All those ss power amps are going to sound decent, get plenty loud, and def passable but i still think a tube power section sounds best with a cab for live use. The ss amp is going to require a lot more deep editing in the modeler to get in the ballpark whereas the tube power basically sounds great on stock settings and only gets better from there. I'm an idiot so this is huge for me haha.
I'd look at the synergy or fryette 1u models or that little ksr one. Heck even a used 5153 is a great option and they aren't that bad to move around. Best part is you have a killer backup plan if he modeler shits the bed.
Just bc you are using a modeler doesn't mean you have to go convenience with every other part of your rig. 4x12s sound amazing with them lol.
I'd look at the synergy or fryette 1u models or that little ksr one. Heck even a used 5153 is a great option and they aren't that bad to move around. Best part is you have a killer backup plan if he modeler shits the bed.
Just bc you are using a modeler doesn't mean you have to go convenience with every other part of your rig. 4x12s sound amazing with them lol.
JiveTurkey
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Me as a shape
jellodog
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Agree! And yeah, I've had my eye on those power amp products for some time, and I nearly bought a Fryette at one point.
But apart from the cost, it's hard to source them in Canada and the Fryette website is kinda useless. IF Fryette didn't have supply issues and their products were easier to source in Canada, I would have already pulled the trigger. I tried to buy one earlier in the year and gave up.
But anyway, I didn't want to give in to the inevitable and buy more tube power, but also spend more money on expensive gear when I've already spent a load of money on expensive gear. I was coming around to the idea again last night though.
Essentially, we've got to the crunch point now... the FM3 either works as I want it to, with the right power section or else I'm done. I know the signal processing in the box is good now; the modeeling is great - especially with the latest firmware updates - I just want need the right power section.
My big heavy Bella already sounds good though, so I could just throw in the towel and stop here and give up on some of the other conveniences of modelling.
Thanks for the thoughts. I might just follow through on your advice. I'll check out some vendor websites again later.
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paisleywookiee
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Pass, name doesn’t sound like a craft beer or effects pedal.
JiveTurkey
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I think tube power is overrated. If I am going there; I might as well go back to tube pre as well. Which is what I have generally done. My amp tones are generated by an actual amp but my FOH tone is that amp + speaker simulation. I don't know. I think all this stuff can certainly be over-thought to a point where you are staunchly in "this" camp one minute then a week later be in "that" camp. I reserve the right to be flaky 
jellodog
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I don't know. I think all this stuff can certainly be over-thought to a point where you are staunchly in "this" camp one minute then a week later be in "that" camp. I reserve the right to be flaky
After a couple of years of research and buying gear, I feel the same.
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The Power Stage isn’t class A/B though. Or at least I didn’t think so.
Nonetheless I tried my QC with a Power Stage 170 and a BAM200 and there was basically no difference. (BAM you have to set neutral)
Personally if I was going back this route (SS into cab) I’d just buy the cheapest thing out there (Probably the BAM) and move on. (Though the Power Stage is a better looking pedal, and seems built like a tank)
I also agree with JT. I would NOT buy a Fryette if your only goal is to go modeler via cab. Total overkill. I ran my QC through a Power Station 100 eventually, but I bought the PS100 primarily as an attenuator for my amps and this was only a side benefit to run the QC with it. I would have to start getting meta physical trying to explain what slight improvements that made with the QC over the SS options. (Maybe a bit less stiff) That said, I did like running pedals into its FX loop in that rig, where I’d guess you’d squeeze maybe a little more juice with analog pedals. The power station is one of the best pieces of utility gear around, but if I had no plans to run it with analog gear, I’d look elsewhere.
Jarick
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TubeStack
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This is where I've ended up.
For me, the point where going full-modeler falls apart is when trying to find a power amp that can come close to the 90W Simul Class that's already in my Mesa head. Fractal amp modeling is incredible, but the next step of powering it through a cab is lacking a widely available and easy option.
Yes, I could try the PS100 or a Matrix, but as @jellodog mentioned, they're hard to get here in Canada. For that matter, even the PS 700 and 200 are hard to get here, right now. And for all that money and trouble, when I can just use my actual Electra Dyne head - that has an incredible tube power amp already, as well as preamp - and be totally happy, the decision kind of makes itself. Especially when I realize I'm just trying to get the FM9/Friedman model to sound exactly like the Dyne, anyway.
So, using the FM9 in 4cm with the Electra Dyne head, I'm still getting all the digital advantages in terms of effects routing options, ease of use, variety of effects available, amazing switching options, etc. I'm just not using the Amp and Cab block and am instead using my actual amp.
(And, like @JiveTurkey , my FOH is that amp + plus speaker simulation, which in my case is the Friedman Mic No Mo.)
All this ^^^ applies to playing with my band and at home, when I need the Amp where I'm at experience. If I'm in a situation where going direct to FOH is the best option, then it's a different story and the FM9 on its own is perfect and amazing.
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BAM200, by TC Electronic. It’s one of the more popular (cheap) SS amps for modelers.
jellodog
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You're correct. The Power Stage is a Class D ICEpower unit.
Also - thanks for your reflections. I also saw elsewhere that you'd bought the Power Station 100 for your QC and didn't realise that it was only a side benefit and not your sole aim. It's good to have clarification.
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jellodog
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You what blows my mind?
In a world where there has been a massive explosion of guitar-oriented gear and modelling options... The fact that a small struggling company (Matrix) is the only game in town for allegedly decent Class A/B power amps for modellers. It's just bizarre.
OR...
Perhaps the universe and the market is telling us (me) something right there
AND... (warning: here come the rant)
Whilst I didn't want to go "FRFR"... every time this subject comes up on the FAS forum, some satisfied dude smugly tells us just how good the Atomic CLR is.
But you just can't effing buy the CLR!
Drives me crazy.
In a world where there has been a massive explosion of guitar-oriented gear and modelling options... The fact that a small struggling company (Matrix) is the only game in town for allegedly decent Class A/B power amps for modellers. It's just bizarre.
OR...
Perhaps the universe and the market is telling us (me) something right there
AND... (warning: here come the rant)
Whilst I didn't want to go "FRFR"... every time this subject comes up on the FAS forum, some satisfied dude smugly tells us just how good the Atomic CLR is.
But you just can't effing buy the CLR!
Drives me crazy.
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JiveTurkey
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The Matrix felt underpowered to me. With a noisy af fan and from what I have read not stellar recent track record. I'd probably look for a combo amp with a speaker you like and just use the FX return when you want a tube power section for your modeler and stick with studio monitors or a good powered speaker for all modeling.
jellodog
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Thanks. Much appreciated! That reflects what I've read. And you know I would mostly use it at home anyway at lower volumes, so the fan would probaby drive me crazy.
Which is also why I was looking at the Orange PB because apart from wanting to try Class A/B, I've seen a bunch of negative reviews concerning the PS170 and PS200 fans (I'd go for the 200 for various reasons). I've also owned a lot of Class D power amps and decided it was time to try a different approach.
And I considered the BAM (Class D) many times over the last year, but there's been a lot of failures of those units recently; despite it being a relatively low outlay of cash. On the other hand, @DrewJD82 absolutely loves his BAM (I think?), so that has given me something to think about.
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TubeStack
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You what blows my mind?
In a world where there has been a massive explosion of guitar-oriented gear and modelling options... The fact that a small struggling company (Matrix) is the only game in town for allegedly decent Class A/B power amps for modellers. It's just bizarre.
OR...
Perhaps the universe and the market is telling us (me) something right there
AND... (warning: here come the rant)
Whilst I didn't want to go "FRFR"... every time this subject comes up on the FAS forum, some satisfied dude smugly tells us just how good the Atomic CLR is.
But you can't effing buy the effing CLR!
Drives me crazy.
Yes. The whole thing really is the last piece for modelers (either a killer power amp or powered speaker). L6 has tried with the PowerCab and Kemper has their Kabinet. I would LOVE a Fractal power amp and/or powered speaker.
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Yeah I bought it indirectly for the QC, hoping it might improve over the BAM, but primarily to power my Synergy rack and to attenuate my amps. The Power Station is the ultimate Swiss Army knife. Not a sexy gear purchase but has so many uses.
That said, I would not buy it specifically to power a cab with modeler, personally. It’s overkill for that purpose, over many of the SS options being mentioned here. PS100 becomes much more attractive once your talking about integrating into a hybrid setup or with amps/preamps etc.
IMO
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