Orange Pedal Baby / other Class A/B + Modeller (FM3) ?

[Stone]

you can become stupidly obessessive about guitar tone.

 

[jellodog]

Whilst I didn't want to go "FRFR"... every time this subject comes up on the FAS forum, some satisfied dude smugly tells us just how good the Atomic CLR is.

But you just can't ****ing buy the CLR!

Aaannd right on schedule, a CLR-owning dude just popped up on the FAS forum during an "FRFR" discussion to tell us how happy he is with his "CLR's" [sic]. Note the plural.

You could set your watch by it

So once again, the unobtainable CLR power orb of the gods is the simple solution to the problem of modeler amplification.

 

[la szum]

You know what? I’m such a terrible tweaker that won’t leave anything alone, that I recently swapped my amber jewel for an indigo one.

Didn’t like it after all. Swapped it back. Waste of money

I'd settle for a working one.

A buddy gave me some vintage-correct bulbs that supposedly have a lower current draw than
the modern ones.... for the toanz ya know? Just have to locate them. Trouble is I'll prpobably
find the beer first.

 

[la szum]

Aaannd right on schedule, a CLR-owning dude just popped up on the FAS forum during a "FRFR" discussion to tell us how happy he is with his "CLR's" [sic]. Note the plural.

You could set your watch by it

So once again, the unobtainable CLR power orb of the gods is the simple solution to the problem of modeler amplification.

One of the first things I did when I went digital was check all the "FRFR" recommendation threads. I went
back years on different forums to see what the hub-bub was all about.

My one take-away: All the guys who rave about "this" particular "FRFR" end up not sticking with it (go figure!),
and are on to something other than "this" particular "FRFR" that they raved about in a thread 3 years ago. It told
me that most of us are at least partially full of crap, and that we are the biggest problem when it comes to gear,
not the gear itself.

 

[jellodog]

One of the first things I did when I went digital was check all the "FRFR" recommendation threads. I went
back years on different forums to see what the hub-bub was all about.

My one take-away: All the guys who rave about "this" particular "FRFR" end up not sticking with it (go figure!),
and are on to something other than "this" particular "FRFR" that they raved about in a thread 3 years ago. It told
me that most of us are at least partially full of crap, and that we are the biggest problem when it comes to gear,
not the gear itself.

Thank you for the insight. That's really interesting (no sarcasm).

 

[la szum]

Thank you for the insight. That's really interesting (no sarcasm).

Refreshing!!!

 

[Stone]

Well its true as guitarists with our endless quest for tone this is what eventually happens because of that lingering question, What if ?
and yes any gear when its fresh/new to us we will always be happy, unfortunately that ends after a while
its the same in the Hi-Fi world Joe has a pair of Paradigm speakers and joe loves them and rants and raves about them but then one day joe walks into a store and hears a pair of KEF speakers and all of sudden hes blown away, now hes thinking my Paradigms dont sound all that good and I must get that pair of KEF speakers, but in reality do they sound better ? or they just sound different?
Its a human Condition

 

[la szum]

Well its true as guitarists with our endless quest for tone this is what eventually happens because of that lingering question, What if ?
and yes any gear when its fresh/new to us we will always be happy, unfortunately that ends after a while
its the same in the Hi-Fi world Joe has a pair of Paradigm speakers and joe loves them and rants and raves about them but then one day joe walks into a store and hears a pair of KEF speakers and all of sudden hes blown away, now hes thinking my Paradigms dont sound all that good and I must get that pair of KEF speakers, but in reality do they sound better ? or they just sound different?
Its a human Condition

This is why some degree of logic is vital to overcoming that level of emotion that gets us chasing our tails
and doing the endless rinse and repeat cycles.


Or so I keep telling myself.

 

[Stone]

This is why some degree of logic is vital to overcoming that level of emotion that gets us chasing our tails
and doing the endless rinse and repeat cycles.


Or so I keep telling myself.

Same Here I love my Helix a lot because it works for me , but then you read a lot of posts from Fractal user and Videos from Leon and then the GAS builds up then the FM9 came out and I did put myself on the waiting list, i thought Hmm a new toy to tweak around with sound like a lot of fun , but during the long wait the GAS fizzed out and cooler heads prevailed and passed on ther FM9
My intention though was to have both platforms Helix and FAS. but you never know ....

 

[Fireproof]

Aaannd right on schedule, a CLR-owning dude just popped up on the FAS forum during an "FRFR" discussion to tell us how happy he is with his "CLR's" [sic]. Note the plural.

You could set your watch by it

So once again, the unobtainable CLR power orb of the gods is the simple solution to the problem of modeler amplification.

@jay mitchell designed these, correct? Does Atomic now “own” the design, or can Jay take it to someone who can actually run a business?

 

[jay mitchell]

You what blows my mind?

In a world where there has been a massive explosion of guitar-oriented gear and modelling options... The fact that a small struggling company (Matrix) is the only game in town for allegedly decent Class A/B power amps for modellers.

"Only game in town" and "allegedly decent" are doing a lot more work in that statement than you apparently realize

 

[jay mitchell]

My one take-away: All the guys who rave about "this" particular "FRFR" end up not sticking with it

For that matter, lots of the guys who do that end up not sticking with modeling.

I said this in 2006, and I've said it hundreds of times since then: There is no magic bullet. The notion that you are one or two purchases away from your tonal nirvana is just one of the many ways in which you have been programmed by consumerist marketing. The programming, based on centuries of empirical research, is very powerful; some people never manage to deprogram themselves.

It told me that most of us are at least partially full of crap, and that we are the biggest problem when it comes to gear,
not the gear itself.

This is a profound epiphany, one worth keeping in mind as you go forward.

 

[jay mitchell]

@jay mitchell designed these, correct?

Yes.

Does Atomic now “own” the design,

Yes. In return for the compensation I received while I was developing the speaker, Atomic has the right to manufacture speakers of that design for as long as they wish. However, since the general format of the speaker is in the public domain and has been for decades, anyone can use it freely. FYI, I can't speak to the performance of current or future production, however, as I no longer work with the company.

or can Jay take it to someone who can actually run a business?

What I can do and what I will do are not the same. First, I have no need to recycle that specific design. Second, I am no longer interested in designing products that will be manufactured by others. Third, my business does not sell to end users, and I have no interest in adapting it for that purpose.

 

[Fireproof]

Yes.

Yes. In return for the compensation I received while I was developing the speaker, Atomic has the right to manufacture speakers of that design for as long as they wish. However, since the general format of the speaker is in the public domain and has been for decades, anyone can use it freely. FYI, I can't speak to the performance of current or future production, however, as I no longer work with the company.

What I can do and what I will do are not the same. First, I have no need to recycle that specific design. Second, I am no longer interested in designing products that will be manufactured by others. Third, my business does not sell to end users, and I have no interest in adapting it for that purpose.

All good. Thanks for satisfying some of my curiosity.

And I can appreciate staying in the B2B vs. B2C world with your expertise / interests.

 

[Jarick]

UPDATE

Short version: I spent an evening playing through monitors rather than Power amp + Cab. I rediscovered just how good my Neumann monitors are, and yes I had the FM3 + IRs sounding pretty damn nice and I was happy.

One thing that I think is important to mention here is that your comments and attempts to help really did have a positive effect on me. So even though I started the thread asking about power amp advice and stating that I didn't like IRs and "FRFR", some of you said "why not just play through a good set of monitors?". I made an effort to really listen to what you guys were saying and took an opportunity to think about that deeply and to have taken a good long look inside myself.

As I have said, I think that I became too obsessive about getting that Amp where I'm at thing "perfect" and it has become a kind of madness. At that point of madness it is essential to have the relatively impartial reflections of other people to bring some balance back into the picture. Also, my ears have been tired recently and I think the cabs are just too loud for me in a home environment.

I hadn't used IRs and studio monitors for at least 2 or 3 months. So why, am I suddenly enjoying the modeller through flat monitors? Here are my theories:

• Change of mental perspective: I decided to really try and embrace IRs and flat response, enjoy it and give my ears a rest from real cabs.
• The stereo field of the cabs, reverbs, delays sounded glorious and made up for the loss of Amp In The Room mono punch.
• I plugged my XLR cables from the FM3 straight into the monitors and bypassed the mixer - it's a fairly decent Mackie mixer, but there are always subtle changes to a signal when you're not using pro level gear. So I was effectively "mainlining tone" from the FM3! Best I've ever heard them sound. Perhaps it was only a 2% difference in signal quality and clarity, but I felt (imagined?) it was there.
• I've gotten better at dialing in the FM3. I've developed a lot more tricks & techniques when dialing in the FM3 with real cabs and I brought all that knowledge in to play when dialing it in for IRs. As you all know, there's a lot to learn in the Fractal world...
• Maximising the signal for the converters. Careful gain staging, parallel FX, just a light touch of compression, subtle use of the Gain Enhancer, low EQ cuts in FX to avoid "mud", attention to Amp Block headroom and output levels.
• The new 6.0 FM3 firmware has crossed a line and it's just better than ever before. Perhaps it was just that!
• I avoided the IR rabbit hole. I have some great IRs and I decided to try only 3 of those and stick to that.
• When you spend too much time playing on your own and not with a backing track or band, you can become stupidly obessessive about guitar tone.

I'm sure that none of this will be surprising to you, and you've read all of this before on gear forums. I just needed a reality check and a mental "reset". You guys have helped immensely with that.

Thank you all, my beautiful TGF therapists.

I'm actually finding something very similar!

I spent a couple weeks playing through the Catalyst 60 modeler input, then jumped back over to my monitors and have been preferring those again.

Here's some of my keys:

• More aggressive high and low cuts. I'm running 12db/oct cuts at 80 / 8k in the cab block PLUS a parametric EQ with 24db/oct cuts at 100 / 6k. That for me helps to get rid of the excess highs and lows and turn the "FRFR" speaker into closer to Amp where I'm at, but still getting the character of an IR. Also this makes it much more forgiving of amps and EQ IMO.
• Turn up the volume. I honestly prefer to play at lower volumes but the sound gets completely screwed up below say 70-75 db. There's honestly no point in screwing around with EQ at super low volumes because it completely changes from 60 to 70 to 80 to 90 db. I'm not going to crank my system up to 90+ db of course because I never play at those volumes but I need more than just conversation level.
• Play along with songs or backing tracks, especially when picking an IR. So much of the midrange character comes from the IR, and if you're just playing solo guitar you're basically flying blind. I really noticed this over the weekend as I really liked a Recto V30 IR but with music the guitar disappeared. Back to the Greenback and the guitar magically reappeared.

Lately I've just been playing the Brit 800 amp set for a light crunch then adding a drive pedal to get up to heavier stuff, or a compressor with a level cut for super cleans. It's versatile and is giving me a good "home base". I'm just using one amp and one IR for almost all my playing and then I'll really get a good idea of how to dial in the monitors and everything.