New Suhr Two Point Trem

[JasonE]

I am not sure how many here have a Suhr guitar and how many of the owners here have seen anything on the new Suhr two point trem that was announced late last year. I saw something on TOP about it and was interested in it. They finally got enough of them that if you have a Suhr guitar you can give them the serial number and they will let you order one. They are very expensive, as are most things Suhr.

I have a few Suhr guitars and decided to put this new bridge in my custom carve top Standard that I had them build for me 10 years ago this year. The guitar was built with a GOTOH 510 with solid saddles on it. The new bridge is built very similarly to the GOTOH.

A couple of things that are different is the trem arm is a little thinner than the GOTOH. The block on the bottom of the trem is beveled, which I am sure removes a decent amount of weight from it. I am not sure what the reason was for this. The bevel does not allow any more clearance for dive bombing because the part that the trem arm screws into hits the body long before the trem block could touch it.

According to John the holes in the block and base plate are drilled differently than the GOTOH to allow a different string angle going over the saddle. This is supposed to help tuning stability.

When I installed the bridge, I put all of the new parts in except the claw and screws. They look exactly the same as what is in the guitar. I figured I would change the springs out since they were selected to use with this bridge as well as the studs that came with it. The studs use a different size Allen wrench but the look and work the same as the ones for the 510. The bridge is a drop in replacement for the GOTOH 510 and you wouldn't have to change the posts or the spring if you didn't want to if you were putting this in place of a 510.

Ready for my bottom line opinion on this bridge? If you have a GOTOH 510 in your Suhr, leave it alone. DO NOT put this bridge into your guitar. I have had this bridge in my guitar for close to a month and I don't notice any difference in the guitar whatsoever. It took time to put it in and set it up and it didn't change a thing and I am $250 poorer. The GOTOH 510 is so close to this bridge and so much cheaper that I would recommend going with one of those instead and save some money.

 

[OrganicZed]

I have three Suhr guitars with the Gotoh 510. I heard about the new bridge but I hadn't been considering swapping out for the new one mostly because it looks to be nearly identical to the 510. Thanks for reinforcing my decision. I don't really understand why they felt the need to move to a proprietary design.

 

[JasonE]

I have three Suhr guitars with the Gotoh 510. I heard about the new bridge but I hadn't been considering swapping out for the new one mostly because it looks to be nearly identical to the 510. Thanks for reinforcing my decision. I don't really understand why they felt the need to move to a proprietary design.

I am not sure either. It really is built nearly identical to the GOTOH 510. It has the Suhr name in the top of it by the trem arm. I guess that adds to the branding... :) The saddles on the Suhr are chrome so it shines a bit more.

 

[OrganicZed]

A couple of things that are different is the trem arm is a little thinner than the GOTOH. The block on the bottom of the trem is beveled, which I am sure removes a decent amount of weight from it. .

Thinking about it some more, weight could have been a motivating factor. I have seen a fair number of complaints online about the weight of Suhr guitars being on the higher side. The cause of the higher than average weight is mostly attributable to the use of their SSCII (adding half a pound) and the steel block on the Gotoh 510 that many of their guitars featured. They might have designed the new bridge as a Gotoh 510 clone that would be lighter.

 

[JasonE]

Thinking about it some more, weight could have been a motivating factor. I have seen a fair number of complaints online about the weight of Suhr guitars being on the higher side. The cause of the higher than average weight is mostly attributable to the use of their SSCII (adding half a pound) and the steel block on the Gotoh 510 that many of their guitars featured. They might have designed the new bridge as a Gotoh 510 clone that would be lighter.

If I had thought about that before installing the bridge, I would have either weighed the guitar before and after putting it in or weighed the two bridges to see what the difference was when I had them both in hand. They did mill a good bit off of the block. I don't remember feeling a lot of weight difference when handling them during the swap. I did have a thought that the new block could take away some thickness in the tone of the guitar. This is from seeing people over the years adding bigger blocks to the bottom of their Floyd Rose to thicken the tone up. I honestly haven't really noticed a difference in it.

 

[OrganicZed]

If I had thought about that before installing the bridge, I would have either weighed the guitar before and after putting it in or weighed the two bridges to see what the difference was when I had them both in hand. They did mill a good bit off of the block. I don't remember feeling a lot of weight difference when handling them during the swap. I did have a thought that the new block could take away some thickness in the tone of the guitar. This is from seeing people over the years adding bigger blocks to the bottom of their Floyd Rose to thicken the tone up. I honestly haven't really noticed a difference in it.

That whole thing about a bigger block being inherently better for tone is highly questionable. Changing the mass of the block can help if you are trying to move the resonant frequency of a dead note or counter balance a guitar with neck dive, but I'd be surprised if it has any significant impact on tone or sustain.

 

[JasonE]

That whole thing about a bigger block being inherently better for tone is highly questionable. Changing the mass of the block can help if you are trying to move the resonant frequency of a dead note or counter balance a guitar with neck dive, but I'd be surprised if it has any significant impact on tone or sustain.

I agree. Like I said, I haven't noticed any difference. One thing you mentioned could be a thing though. I have seen many posts about Suhr guitars with dead spots on the neck. I wonder if the change was to try to combat that at all.

 

[OrganicZed]

I agree. Like I said, I haven't noticed any difference. One thing you mentioned could be a thing though. I have seen many posts about Suhr guitars with dead spots on the neck. I wonder if the change was to try to combat that at all.

That's an interesting thought.

 

[Eagle]

If you want the looser tension on the 510 fit the T block it’s also cut for a better angle through the saddle. The TS block is the vintage style one . I would argue the Gotoh is at least as good or better than the Suhr bridge. I suspect it is manufactured in Korea by the OEM builder that makes their tuners but I don’t know yet.

 

[Eagle]

The T block, standard equipment on Tyler.

Lower tension. This block is zinc but not sintered and sounds excellent.

 

[Eagle]

That's an interesting thought.

No, dead spots are entirely down to an incompatibility between the wood in the neck and body. Hardware changes the mass and the interaction but it is guitar specific and can not be helped by changing a standard component universally because that just takes you back to square one with different numbers.

 

[Eagle]

This is the best two post bridge available.

510 TS with locking saddles.

 

[Eagle]

The string path of the Gotoh T block;

 

[JasonE]

I didn't think to take pictures of the Suhr bridge before I installed it. The block is a little different than the one Tyler uses. It doesn't have the channels in it for the strings like that T block. I can confirm for you @Eagle that the GOTOH 510 is as good or better than the new Suhr bridge. The bridges are so similar that I am not sure why John decided to make his own. The R&D alone as well as special tooling to make it have of cost enough that he would have to use his own bridge for many years to just recover that cost.

I read a post from a guy that put the new Suhr bridge in his Suhr and said he heard a difference and that it gave his guitar a thicker tone and removed a high end thinness from it that he didn't like. The Suhr I put it in is a custom build and it already had the solid saddles on the 510. Maybe he went from bent saddles to solid saddles and that is why he noticed a difference. I honestly have not noticed any difference in my guitar after putting it in. According to what I have seen John post, the block and hole angles are different as well as the saddles are milled and not cast. I don't know if the 510 saddles are cast. They do have a different look to them and look like they could be cast. They have more of a texture to the finish than the Suhr saddles. The Suhr saddles are very smooth texture and chromed.

 

[Eagle]

I didn't think to take pictures of the Suhr bridge before I installed it. The block is a little different than the one Tyler uses. It doesn't have the channels in it for the strings like that T block. I can confirm for you @Eagle that the GOTOH 510 is as good or better than the new Suhr bridge. The bridges are so similar that I am not sure why John decided to make his own. The R&D alone as well as special tooling to make it have of cost enough that he would have to use his own bridge for many years to just recover that cost.

I read a post from a guy that put the new Suhr bridge in his Suhr and said he heard a difference and that it gave his guitar a thicker tone and removed a high end thinness from it that he didn't like. The Suhr I put it in is a custom build and it already had the solid saddles on the 510. Maybe he went from bent saddles to solid saddles and that is why he noticed a difference. I honestly have not noticed any difference in my guitar after putting it in. According to what I have seen John post, the block and hole angles are different as well as the saddles are milled and not cast. I don't know if the 510 saddles are cast. They do have a different look to them and look like they could be cast. They have more of a texture to the finish than the Suhr saddles. The Suhr saddles are very smooth texture and chromed.

Suhr doesn’t make them in house. They are OEM same as the tuners. They are probably significantly cheaper to use as long as you need the numbers. It’s a good bridge but it will be for commercial reasons not any defects in the 510.

 

[JasonE]

Suhr doesn’t make them in house. They are OEM same as the tuners. They are probably significantly cheaper to use as long as you need the numbers. It’s a good bridge but it will be for commercial reasons not any defects in the 510.

From the things I have seen John post, he believes his bridge is a better design than the 510. That is honestly the reason I decided to give it a try. I knew when I purchased it that I may not really notice a difference but I was willing to give it a try since John said the bridge had design improvements that he purposely thought through and designed.

 

[Eagle]

From the things I have seen John post, he believes his bridge is a better design than the 510. That is honestly the reason I decided to give it a try. I knew when I purchased it that I may not really notice a difference but I was willing to give it a try since John said the bridge had design improvements that he purposely thought through and designed.

John refined it to his taste, but the difference is very subtle. It’s down to if you like deep drilled blocks and the sound of milled saddles over the Gotoh ones. I actually prefer the bent fender style ones and a vintage style block. Deciding to do your own hardware gives you the opportunity to change a few things but the 510 is still my preference.

 

[JasonE]

John refined it to his taste, but the difference is very subtle. It’s down to if you like deep drilled blocks and the sound of milled saddles over the Gotoh ones. I actually prefer the bent fender style ones and a vintage style block. Deciding to do your own hardware gives you the opportunity to change a few things but the 510 is still my preference.

The guitar I put it in isn't vintage inspired so a modern block and solid saddles fit the bill. That is what the 501 I took out of it had as well. To me this is a good comparison of the two since they both had similar blocks and solid saddles in the same guitar. Changing either of those would probably have made a noticeable difference in tone.