New Lexicon PCM 70 Day

[2112]

Leon, I am looking forward to getting my PCM 92, to compare with my PCM 70. I have heard great things about the PCM92/96, basis in-depth discussions on Gearspace and ModWiggler. Michael Carnes faithfully ported the David Griesinger-designed vintage Plate, Chamber, Hall and Random Hall algorithms from the 224XL and 480L over to the new 92/96 architecture...while adding further expanded functional capabilities, now possible with the PCM 92/96's powerful DSP, such as randomizations, as well as higher fidelity "wander" and "spin".

The Gearspace Lexicon thread is GOLD.

 

[Eagle]

Daily use of these, 80/81's and 90/91's are precisely why I never had an issue navigating Fractal units from the front panel.

Killer units. Congrats and enjoy!

Same here. I can’t imagine why anyone has issues with Axe’s interface. The last thing I want is a unit with an iPad stuck on the front. It’s far better to have pages and instant access perimeter knobs.

 

[Whizzinby]

Halfass non-scientific comparison. Just took the stock PCM70 and AxeFx presets for Concert Hall, Gymnasium and Tunnel. Matched the pre-delay times and left everything else at defaults.



Clip 1: PCM 70 Concert Hall
Clip 2: AxeFX Concert Hall
Clip 3: PCM 70 Gymnasium
Clip 4: AxeFX Gymnasium
Clip 5: PCM 70 Tunnel
Clip 6: AxeFX Tunnel

PCM def does feel like it’s sitting in a space. Greatly prefer the PCM Hall, but prefer the AxeFX Tunnel. (Though the PCM tunnel is weird in a really cool way. Sounds like a narrower tunnel and has a metallic aftertaste) The Axe Gym sounds like a bigger gym, and floats more. Both are great.

 

[Orvillain]

Clip 1, 3, 4... those are dead sexeh.

Clip 2 doesn't come close to clip 1.

I actually prefer clip 6 over clip 5.

 

[Tritium3H]

Halfass non-scientific comparison. Just took the stock PCM70 and AxeFx presets for Concert Hall, Gymnasium and Tunnel. Matched the pre-delay times and left everything else at defaults.



Clip 1: PCM 70 Concert Hall
Clip 2: AxeFX Concert Hall
Clip 3: PCM 70 Gymnasium
Clip 4: AxeFX Gymnasium
Clip 5: PCM 70 Tunnel
Clip 6: AxeFX Tunnel

PCM def does feel like it’s sitting in a space. Greatly prefer the PCM Hall, but prefer the AxeFX Tunnel. (Though the PCM tunnel is weird in a really cool way. Sounds like a narrower tunnel and has a metallic aftertaste) The Axe Gym sounds like a bigger gym, and floats more. Both are great.

Very nice comparison, well done!

If you get a chance, can you do the PCM70’s “Rich Plate” and “Vox Plate”, versus the Fractal’s “London Plate” and “Gold Plate”.

Perhaps also a comparison between the famous PCM70 “Circular Delay”, vs Fractal’s recreation.

Cheers

 

[Whizzinby]

Very nice comparison, well done!

If you get a chance, can you do the PCM70’s “Rich Plate” and “Vox Plate”, versus the Fractal’s “London Plate” and “Gold Plate”.

Perhaps also a comparison between the famous PCM70 “Circular Delay”, vs Fractal’s recreation.

Cheers

Yeah I can snap a few this evening of those. I want to mess with the Axe Concert Hall a little more. I ran both the PCM and Axe kill dry into my mixer at the same levels, but I think the Axe Hall could use a little more FX volume. (I didn’t want to crank it too much and make a big volume swings between same algos, but I think the Axe Concert could use more effected signal) I think the others were reasonably well represented.

The PCM is definitely doing something different with the reflections in the Concert Hall though. Sounds awesome.

Clip 1, 3, 4... those are dead sexeh.

Clip 2 doesn't come close to clip 1.

I actually prefer clip 6 over clip 5.

Yeah both Gymnasiums are awesome, but in slightly different ways.

Agreed about the Axe Tunnel. Prefer that, but I think because it’s much more refined. Like they tuned out some of the metallic swell.

 

[2112]

You'll get closer to the PCM Rich Plate with the Fractal Chamber algorithms or the Plex Delay IMO. It's also worth experimenting with the low/high frequency multipliers and the early/late reflection levels.

Or don't trying to match Reverbs between different units is the 7th circle of hell finished to amp matching IMO

 

[Orvillain]

Or don't trying to match Reverbs between different units is the 7th circle of hell finished to amp matching IMO

It's the most evil thing. And not in a cool "grandma gave me beer when I was 13" kind of way.

 

[Whizzinby]

Made this before seeing @2112 ‘s post.

I wasn’t going to bother trying to do the math with the delays to sync them up, since the 70 doesn’t have tap tempo or subdivisions. They aren’t on beat, but you can still get the mojo for both. Default on everything, except dropping the feedback on the Axe Circular delay to make it somewhat more comparable.

Clip 1 PCM 70 Concert Hall
Clip 2 AxeFX Concert Hall
Clip 3 PCM 70 Rich Plate
Clip 4 AxeFX London Plate
Clip 5 PCM 70 Vox Plate
Clip 6 AxeFX Gold Plate
Clip 7 PCM 70 Tiled Room
Clip 8 AxeFX Tiled Room
Clip 9 PCM 70 Pan Delays
Clip 10 AxeFX Pan Delays
Clip 11 PCM 70 Circular Delays
Clip 12 AxeFX Circular Delays



Concert Hall and Rich Plate I much prefer the 70. Brighter, airier, sounds in a space. Great stuff.

The Axe Gold plate is damn nice. I noticed it has some modulation added by default, which I think gives it that darker richer feel.

Tiled room. Both are great.

PCM70 Pan Delays:

Perfect.

The AxeFX pan delays are lathered in a ton of modulation at default settings. I love it on the Axe, but it’s an entirely different thing.

Circular Delays, so good on the PCM, but the AxeFx version is epic.

 

[Orvillain]

@Whizzinby is my favourite guitarist on TGF.

*smoochies*

 

[Whizzinby]

@Whizzinby is my favourite guitarist on TGF.

*smoochies*

I’ll be seeing you bright and early tomorrow for aerobics class.

 

[KFF]

...the 7th circle of hell...

Why not both?

 

[Shask]

Made this before seeing @2112 ‘s post.

I wasn’t going to bother trying to do the math with the delays to sync them up, since the 70 doesn’t have tap tempo or subdivisions. They aren’t on beat, but you can still get the mojo for both. Default on everything, except dropping the feedback on the Axe Circular delay to make it somewhat more comparable.

Clip 1 PCM 70 Concert Hall
Clip 2 AxeFX Concert Hall
Clip 3 PCM 70 Rich Plate
Clip 4 AxeFX London Plate
Clip 5 PCM 70 Vox Plate
Clip 6 AxeFX Gold Plate
Clip 7 PCM 70 Tiled Room
Clip 8 AxeFX Tiled Room
Clip 9 PCM 70 Pan Delays
Clip 10 AxeFX Pan Delays
Clip 11 PCM 70 Circular Delays
Clip 12 AxeFX Circular Delays



Concert Hall and Rich Plate I much prefer the 70. Brighter, airier, sounds in a space. Great stuff.

The Axe Gold plate is damn nice. I noticed it has some modulation added by default, which I think gives it that darker richer feel.

Tiled room. Both are great.

PCM70 Pan Delays:

Perfect.

The AxeFX pan delays are lathered in a ton of modulation at default settings. I love it on the Axe, but it’s an entirely different thing.

Circular Delays, so good on the PCM, but the AxeFx version is epic.

Maybe I am not that picky because they all sound great to me, lol.

 

[Tritium3H]

Made this before seeing @2112 ‘s post.

I wasn’t going to bother trying to do the math with the delays to sync them up, since the 70 doesn’t have tap tempo or subdivisions. They aren’t on beat, but you can still get the mojo for both. Default on everything, except dropping the feedback on the Axe Circular delay to make it somewhat more comparable.

Clip 1 PCM 70 Concert Hall
Clip 2 AxeFX Concert Hall
Clip 3 PCM 70 Rich Plate
Clip 4 AxeFX London Plate
Clip 5 PCM 70 Vox Plate
Clip 6 AxeFX Gold Plate
Clip 7 PCM 70 Tiled Room
Clip 8 AxeFX Tiled Room
Clip 9 PCM 70 Pan Delays
Clip 10 AxeFX Pan Delays
Clip 11 PCM 70 Circular Delays
Clip 12 AxeFX Circular Delays



Concert Hall and Rich Plate I much prefer the 70. Brighter, airier, sounds in a space. Great stuff.

The Axe Gold plate is damn nice. I noticed it has some modulation added by default, which I think gives it that darker richer feel.

Tiled room. Both are great.

PCM70 Pan Delays:

Perfect.

The AxeFX pan delays are lathered in a ton of modulation at default settings. I love it on the Axe, but it’s an entirely different thing.

Circular Delays, so good on the PCM, but the AxeFx version is epic.

I agree, in total. The PCM70’s analog front end, and Griesinger-designed algorithms just give it that “special sauce”. It is most evident in the reverb tails, after the last chord is struck and the notes decay.

With that said, the Fractal, and Cliff Chase’s reverb and delay algorithms make for an absolutely worthy alternative, and they stand proud in their own right.

However. I do prefer the warmth, movement, and that mysterious 3-Dimensionality of the PCM70. So gooey and syrupy, yet utterly complements and “melds” with the guitar. The Circular and Pan Delays in the PCM70 are the Chef's Kiss!

So good.

Thanks for posting these @Whizzinby , and all your effort and work.

You have inspired me. When my PCM92 arrives, I will have to post some audio comparisons between my PCM70 and the “new/final” generation Lexicon PCM92.

“We really shook the Pillars of Heaven…didn’t we, Wang”
— Jack Burton

 

[SeeD]

PCM70 all the way! It`s soo sweet and warm sounding

 

[Eagle]

You are doing a great job of showing that the hardware itself was the reason that some of these old classics have not yet been beaten .

 

[Monkey Man]

All this stuff is in the AxeFX and every other pedal released since...

I doubt it but I could be wrong of course.

I don't know of any 3rd-party hardware products that are licensed to use the actual algorithms.

I totally get why those presets were legendary, because nobody wanted to fucking bother tweaking their own.

To be fair, the presets in all the high-end Lexicon units were stellar so there really wasn't any need to edit them.

Even serious studios just went with factory presets.

@Tritium3H Brother J, is that you my man?
If so, looong time no see brother and hope you're well.

 

[Whizzinby]

I agree, in total. The PCM70’s analog front end, and Griesinger-designed algorithms just give it that “special sauce”. It is most evident in the reverb tails, after the last chord is struck and the notes decay.

With that said, the Fractal, and Cliff Chase’s reverb and delay algorithms make for an absolutely worthy alternative, and they stand proud in their own right.

However. I do prefer the warmth, movement, and that mysterious 3-Dimensionality of the PCM70. So gooey and syrupy, yet utterly complements and “melds” with the guitar. The Circular and Pan Delays in the PCM70 are the Chef's Kiss!

So good.

Thanks for posting these @Whizzinby , and all your effort and work.

You have inspired me. When my PCM92 arrives, I will have to post some audio comparisons between my PCM70 and the “new/final” generation Lexicon PCM92.

Curious to see what you pull from the 92 and how they evolved the algos.

I’m very impressed how well this has held up with time. I was bracing myself to be underwhelmed, but it sounds fantastic.

“We really shook the Pillars of Heaven…didn’t we, Wang”
— Jack Burton

 

[Whizzinby]

I doubt it but I could be wrong of course.

I don't know of any 3rd-party hardware products that are licensed to use the actual algorithms.

I meant emulations. I didn’t realize how many of the 70 algos/presets were the source of other emulations. When I got my AxeFX, I didn’t realize the Gymnasium or Tunnel etc were their take on the PCM algos. It clicked immediately scrolling through the PCM’s presets. I had that moment of “Oh, this is the source inspiration for XYZ”.

 

[Tritium3H]

Curious to see what you pull from the 92 and how they evolved the algos.

I’m very impressed how well this has held up with time. I was bracing myself to be underwhelmed, but it sounds fantastic.

I can't imagine the PCM92 totally eclipsing the PCM70, especially in its original, world-renowned, and time-tested presets (Circular and Pan Delays, Concert Hall, Tiled Hall, etc.).

However, I am excited on experiencing the true "Random Hall" algorithm, as well as the classic Hall, Plate and Chamber algos that, by trusted Lexicon engineers, are functionally/structurally a one-to-one correspondence with the great 224XL and 480L algos...albeit translated from native machine/assembly language of the original Lexicon DSP processors to whatever runs on the PCM 92/96-based TigerSHARCs. This was not even something done for the PCM80/81 or PCM90/91 series. That, plus true stereo input/output.

By all accounts, the PCM92/96 re-captured the glory of the original, 224/480/PCM70, while adding greater "realism" and fidelity to physical acoustic spaces, if that is what is desired. Basically, a faithful call-back to the original, more "stylized" (and musical) reverbs, while also having capability to reproduce the modern, high-fidelity simulation of real physical spaces...if one wanted to go that route (e.g., classical instruments situated in an actual chamber or symphony hall). All that, plus being able to simultaneously run up to 4-virtual machines, in stereo -- delays, modulations, reverbs, pitch-shifting, etc.

Be that as it may...this is a thread dedicated to the glorious, inimitable Lexicon PCM70. One of the most legendary digital effects of ALL TIME.

Great job, again, @Whizzinby on the most excellent recordings and sound comparisons.