New Job Saga

[Jarick]

Got called into a meeting yesterday and was informed my boss and a bunch of coworkers were all laid off. Been with the company nearly 20 years and never seen anything like this, but we lost a major lawsuit recently and the settlement will wipe us out.

Sounds like my job is safe because I’ve done so much for them over the years and basically running projects that are still rolling out. But the writing seems to be on the wall for the company as the industry as a whole is dying.

Any advice on finding a new job? I’ve basically been at my company since I graduated college. Left for a few months but the new company was a disaster so was able to get back in a new role. Haven’t really been successful at interviews in the past but I need to shift back into that mindset.

UPDATE from 12/12: I got a new job with a company I had been wanting to work at for years! It's a continuation of what I've been doing but with much better support in a more mature organization with lots of room for career growth. And a nice little pay bump as well!

 

[Warmart]

Very sorry to hear that, never a situation you want to find yourself in, but most of us have probably seen some flavor of this over the years.

The bad news, at least from my perspective in the Software/Database world - is that the market pretty much stinks. With thousands upon thousands upon thousands of tech layoffs from many of the huge companies, there aren't a lot of openings and those that are either have much reduced salaries or they demand 100 different skills. Then you have umpteen gazillion people jockeying for every position that is half decent.

Oh well, these things go in cycles, but it seems the employers hold the cards right now. The workers held it from the start of Covid until about a year or so ago.

Network all you can, don't be afraid to call people you may know at other companies, get your resume ready and post on sites like Indeed.com and LinkedIn, etc.

And keep your head up, you'll land on your feet - if you even will have to go somewhere else. Sometimes these things work out and it seems you're appreciated where you are.

 

[jellodog]

I've got the same observations as @Warmart : The software development job market is the worst I've seen it in years right now (on both sides of the Atlantic).

There are hopes that things will pick up in spring, if and when recession concerns turn out not to be as bad as people have feared.

It definitely helps to tell as many people as possible that you're looking for a job, so that the network effect can broaden your net. Hang in there bud.

 

[fretworn]

Interviewing like everything else requires practice.

Do as many interviews as you can - understanding that you’re gonna get better throughout the process.

I have a lot of general principles for the preamble (this gets you the ticket to the dance), through the interview process, including what you bring/leave behind, to what you do to “close” each interview.

I did a lot of job searching in my life.

I always found I was far better off with the change, even though I may not have see it at the time. Including retiring early.

 

[DrewJD82]

Not sure what field you’re in but what worked for me was the “spray and pray” method of sending out a ton of resumes regardless if I had the exact qualifications they were looking for or not and that’s how I got the position I’m in now. They were looking for a little more than I had experience with, but my experience elsewhere was beneficial to the position and we essentially met in the middle. It was actually the first job I applied to, I didn’t think they were even going to hire me but ignored any of that mental crap and just went for it. That was 5 years ago and now I’m 4th down from the top of the company in a career I never thought I’d find myself in.

Good luck, man! You’ve always come off as a levelheaded guy and that’s the stuff you need to get through these periods!

 

[Jarick]

Not sure what field you’re in but what worked for me was the “spray and pray” method of sending out a ton of resumes regardless if I had the exact qualifications they were looking for or not and that’s how I got the position I’m in now. They were looking for a little more than I had experience with, but my experience elsewhere was beneficial to the position and we essentially met in the middle. It was actually the first job I applied to, I didn’t think they were even going to hire me but ignored any of that mental crap and just went for it. That was 5 years ago and now I’m 4th down from the top of the company in a career I never thought I’d find myself in.

Good luck, man! You’ve always come off as a levelheaded guy and that’s the stuff you need to get through these periods!

Yeah I tend to be the level headed problem solver type. It doesn't come across as well in resumes and I thought I interviewed well in the past but rarely got the offer. Right now it has to be preparation, really cleaning up the resume so it shows all the wins I've had over the years, going through interview questions and making sure I have good responses, all of that.

I think it's also very likely that, because I've done so much with this company I would likely always have some role available. I mean things I've build 15 years ago are still being used today because they work well and are expensive to replace.

But do I want to stay on a sinking ship for the next 5+ years or jump into the ocean and see where I can land? Same company from 22-40 years old, a career change may be a very good thing for me.

 

[Jarick]

Very sorry to hear that, never a situation you want to find yourself in, but most of us have probably seen some flavor of this over the years.

The bad news, at least from my perspective in the Software/Database world - is that the market pretty much stinks. With thousands upon thousands upon thousands of tech layoffs from many of the huge companies, there aren't a lot of openings and those that are either have much reduced salaries or they demand 100 different skills. Then you have umpteen gazillion people jockeying for every position that is half decent.

Oh well, these things go in cycles, but it seems the employers hold the cards right now. The workers held it from the start of Covid until about a year or so ago.

Network all you can, don't be afraid to call people you may know at other companies, get your resume ready and post on sites like Indeed.com and LinkedIn, etc.

And keep your head up, you'll land on your feet - if you even will have to go somewhere else. Sometimes these things work out and it seems you're appreciated where you are.

I started out in finance and became kind of a finance/technology hybrid. I've got a lot more technology and project skills than your average finance person but can understand the business problems and move faster towards solutions than your average technology person.

I jumped from finance to IT a few years back (well natural evolution I suppose), but because I'm somewhere in the middle, it's hard to figure out where I'd want to start at a new company.

 

[DrewJD82]

Yeah I tend to be the level headed problem solver type. It doesn't come across as well in resumes and I thought I interviewed well in the past but rarely got the offer. Right now it has to be preparation, really cleaning up the resume so it shows all the wins I've had over the years, going through interview questions and making sure I have good responses, all of that.

I think it's also very likely that, because I've done so much with this company I would likely always have some role available. I mean things I've build 15 years ago are still being used today because they work well and are expensive to replace.

But do I want to stay on a sinking ship for the next 5+ years or jump into the ocean and see where I can land? Same company from 22-40 years old, a career change may be a very good thing for me.

I hear ya in regards to resumes and problem solving, you can really only detail that in a conversation. While I had Restaurant Management on my resume, that didn’t speak of what that job entails, which is basically problem solving 101. Once I got in the interview and detailed how that job is putting out literal and non-literal fires the entire duration of a shift, that’s what got them to take me in consideration. Putting out fires is pretty much the biggest part of my job now, just a whole different field.

 

[fretworn]

I started out in finance and became kind of a finance/technology hybrid. I've got a lot more technology and project skills than your average finance person but can understand the business problems and move faster towards solutions than your average technology person.

I jumped from finance to IT a few years back (well natural evolution I suppose), but because I'm somewhere in the middle, it's hard to figure out where I'd want to start at a new company.

Not knowing anything about you, or your experience… just what you’ve written here briefly…

But I will tell you that having domain expertise, such as finance, and then being able to translate that to the technical world is crucial these days.

Businesses is always business. IT just enables.

There are many roles that allow you to be this type of “business analyst”.

You can always take it to the next level which is “consultant” and be a hired gun. The guy that’s been there done that and has the scar tissue to prove it.

 

[Jarick]

Had half a conversation with an executive, sounds like the writing is on the wall for the company. The entire real estate industry is likely to collapse over the next 12 months. So will need to start aggressively hunting for jobs soon.

 

[fretworn]

Had half a conversation with an executive, sounds like the writing is on the wall for the company. The entire real estate industry is likely to collapse over the next 12 months. So will need to start aggressively hunting for jobs soon.

Don’t wait… I made that mistake once. Longest period of unemployment ever.

Are you guys doing commercial?

All that that debt roll-over in the trillions $,$$$,$$$,$$$,$$$ … with 100% increase in the interest rates.

 

[Gearzilla]

The entire real estate industry is likely to collapse over the next 12 months.

Based on the broker commission class actions or other factors?

 

[fretworn]

Based on the broker commission class actions or other factors?

There’s a lot of volatility in smaller banks right now as well … Very high risk because of the increasing interest rates on their obligations versus their fixed loan portfolio.

 

[Gearzilla]

There’s a lot of volatility in smaller banks right now as well … Very high risk because of the increasing interest rates on their obligations versus their fixed loan portfolio.

Agreed. Though I’m not sure if that would collapse the RE industry. Definitely a lot of commercial properties struggling too.

 

[Jarick]

Based on the broker commission class actions or other factors?

Based on that exactly. The lawsuit named brokerage companies but not agents. Real estate agents aren't employees, they are independent contractors. They also get almost all of the commissions from sale. So the lawsuits naming companies will effectively bankrupt the entire industry. And the industry has been trending towards unprofitability.

 

[Gearzilla]

Based on that exactly. The lawsuit named brokerage companies but not agents. Real estate agents aren't employees, they are independent contractors. They also get almost all of the commissions from sale. So the lawsuits naming companies will effectively bankrupt the entire industry. And the industry has been trending towards unprofitability.

I think it’s still subject to appeal at this point. Even without fines if it sticks will definitely carve out the available revenue for the industry. Probably be a lot of additional collateral consequences that weren’t thought through very well at the time.

 

[Jarick]

I think it’s still subject to appeal at this point. Even without fines if it sticks will definitely carve out the available revenue for the industry. Probably be a lot of additional collateral consequences that weren’t thought through very well at the time.

Appeal is really the last gasp at this point. I'm not very optimistic. These lawsuits are being filed in every state.

Has anyone worked with a job placement service? I never really liked having to hunt through jobs and companies and try to figure out which one would be a fit.

 

[mavrick102000]

Got called into a meeting yesterday and was informed my boss and a bunch of coworkers were all laid off. Been with the company nearly 20 years and never seen anything like this, but we lost a major lawsuit recently and the settlement will wipe us out.

Sounds like my job is safe because I’ve done so much for them over the years and basically running projects that are still rolling out. But the writing seems to be on the wall for the company as the industry as a whole is dying.

Any advice on finding a new job? I’ve basically been at my company since I graduated college. Left for a few months but the new company was a disaster so was able to get back in a new role. Haven’t really been successful at interviews in the past but I need to shift back into that mindset.

Sorry to hear.

Get your resume updated ASAP, and start going on some interviews.

Use interviews at companies you might not want to work for as practice runs to work out and familiarize yourself with the new style of interviewing.

The "New" interview process is all about describing situations and how you handled, or would handle it.

"Tell me about a time when..." is common speak during interviews for at least the last decade. It takes some adjusting to when you haven't been used to this style.

And yes, there are wrong answers, no matter what the interviewer tells you

 

[Jarick]

Sorry to hear.

Get your resume updated ASAP, and start going on some interviews.

Use interviews at companies you might not want to work for as practice runs to work out and familiarize yourself with the new style of interviewing.

The "New" interview process is all about describing situations and how you handled, or would handle it.

"Tell me about a time when..." is common speak during interviews for at least the last decade. It takes some adjusting to when you haven't been used to this style.

And yes, there are wrong answers, no matter what the interviewer tells you

Yeah good call.

What I've done in the past is listed a bunch of common/standard questions, prepared and memorized an answer, and rehearsed it until it was smooth. Basically like cramming for a final exam.

I'm updating my resume now, cleaning it up a fair amount. My previous boss and I are good friends so talked a bit yesterday and he sent me his resume to help with ideas. Previously I was trying to kind of tell a story about accomplishments, but mostly companies are just trying to match keywords for tasks and duties, so it seems like that is a better approach.

 

[fretworn]

Yeah good call.

What I've done in the past is listed a bunch of common/standard questions, prepared and memorized an answer, and rehearsed it until it was smooth. Basically like cramming for a final exam.

I'm updating my resume now, cleaning it up a fair amount. My previous boss and I are good friends so talked a bit yesterday and he sent me his resume to help with ideas. Previously I was trying to kind of tell a story about accomplishments, but mostly companies are just trying to match keywords for tasks and duties, so it seems like that is a better approach.

Resume is about success … growth and metrics. Brand history can matter.

This step gets you to recruiting where quals/comp is verified

Then interviews which are storytelling around key areas.

Lots to say about each step.