NDSP Quad Cortex

[DrewJD82]

I can't wait until the new Neural-gate when people complain that the plug-ins inside the QC sound different than the standalone plugins that they are using with their dedicated audio interfaces. "the gain doesn't sound the same....."

I'd hope they'd avoid a repeat of the Soldano plug/QC Soldano gate.

 

[la szum]

Pretty sure of just this one thing: that way too many words have been exhausted
and spent on the QC than it deserves (both pro and con). It has become a borderline
religious/political device/topic at this point.

That, in and of itself, is more than enough to have me walking forward and never
looking back.

Ok, a little looking back. Just enough to cover muh own ass.


From a Meta perspective I wonder why is it so divisive?

I don't seem to recall any other platform having such a divisive
presence in the Gear Realm. At least not to the extent of the QC.

 

[GTR37]

Pretty sure of just this one thing: that way too many words have been exhausted
and spent on the QC than it deserves (both pro and con). It has become a borderline
religious/political device/topic at this point.

That, in and of itself, is more than enough to have me walking forward and never
looking back.

Ok, a little looking back. Just enough to cover muh own ass.


From a Meta perspective I wonder why is it so divisive?

I don't seem to recall any other platform having such a divisive
presence in the Gear Realm. At least not to the extent of the QC.

Freidman , Cameron , Wizard, Fortin ,Larry ..............
There are lots of controversial and polarizing products ,NDSP is not the first and I am sure not the last

 

[laxu]

As far as I'm aware (this may have changed or evolved a bit), ML soundlab amp sims are little more than waveshapers with IR's EQ matching the tone, interpolating between settings. I've heard of some of the signature models being captured remotely by just reamping some test signals through the amp at various settings. That's not to say that they sound bad - for some amps it can be reasonably close. I remember an old forum posts that EQ matched a MT-2 to a 5150 and it was depressingly close.

The ones I've tried sound good to me and function a lot like the modeled amps. The tones I've got out of them compare favorable to whatever NeuralDSP does so I don't really see a problem here.

But if thats the level of modelling, then I would absolutely not expect ML amp sims to be priced any more than what they are. Add official licensing from amp manufacturers or artists and the NDSP doesn't seem too unreasonable to me. Its easy for us to get used to insanely low pricing being the norm.

I'm saying that the <= 99 € price point is important psychologically for people buying plugins. When the price is above that people start to consider their spending more.

Plugins suffer from the same issue that mobile apps do, namely they were initially too cheap, so someone selling one for a higher price is going to have buyers used to those cheap prices just bail. At least with plugins you don't have to perpetually update them to keep up with operating system changes.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

The ones I've tried sound good to me and function a lot like the modeled amps. The tones I've got out of them compare favorable to whatever NeuralDSP does so I don't really see a problem here.

I can’t really say that’s been my experience - I’d liken it to a Kemper, where if the underlying character of the distortion is vaguely similar to the real amp, it can sound quite close and for something more complex it just sounds off and bad. The technique is actually quite similar to what a kemper is doing, albeit interpolating between all EQ settings on an amp. I’m guessing Audio Assault do something like this too. IMO it’s a quick and easy ham fisted way of making an amp sim - it allows for models to be made very quickly, and they can sound quite close. But it’s kind of crude and not on the same level as companies who are properly circuit modelling (and measuring) real amps. Compare how many models they have released (even in just the last 12 months) compared to a company like Mercuriall. I think they’re absolutely fine for €30-40 or so.

I'm saying that the <= 99 € price point is important psychologically for people buying plugins. When the price is above that people start to consider their spending more.

Plugins suffer from the same issue that mobile apps do, namely they were initially too cheap, so someone selling one for a higher price is going to have buyers used to those cheap prices just bail. At least with plugins you don't have to perpetually update them to keep up with operating system changes.

Yep, and that’s absolutely fine. The people who are only willing to pay bargain basement prices don’t want or care enough about each product (or how they’re made) to want to spend full price on them. They’d rather buy more products and have a taste of everything.

The same is true of audio plugins in general - ultimately there are still companies who are doing serious work based on lots of R&D, and are properly supporting and updating their plugins to be stable.

Annoyingly, because of macOS releasing new versions every year, there IS a requirement for developers to constantly update and support their software, and I don’t actually mind paying a bit extra if I can have the assurances that it’s going to work reliably (as opposed to becoming abandonware). Apple has pulled the rug many times in the past, and I’m sure they will continue to do so. Also, users of Pro Tools need aax versions which have their own hoops for developers to jump through.

I don’t really see the difference in price vs modelling approach to be much different with HW vs plugins, except that people generally expect to pay less for plugins (because there is more competition). People absolutely spend more on a Fractal device than they would Headrush or a plugin, because the modelling is better. It’s not just sounds better, or sounds close enough to each other.

 

[dronerstone]

I can’t really say that’s been my experience - I’d liken it to a Kemper, where if the underlying character of the distortion is vaguely similar to the real amp, it can sound quite close and for something more complex it just sounds off and bad. The technique is actually quite similar to what a kemper is doing, albeit interpolating between all EQ settings on an amp. I’m guessing Audio Assault do something like this too. IMO it’s a quick and easy ham fisted way of making an amp sim - it allows for models to be made very quickly, and they can sound quite close. But it’s kind of crude and not on the same level as companies who are properly circuit modelling (and measuring) real amps. Compare how many models they have released (even in just the last 12 months) compared to a company like Mercuriall. I think they’re absolutely fine for €30-40 or so.



Yep, and that’s absolutely fine. The people who are only willing to pay bargain basement prices don’t want or care enough about each product (or how they’re made) to want to spend full price on them. They’d rather buy more products and have a taste of everything.

The same is true of audio plugins in general - ultimately there are still companies who are doing serious work based on lots of R&D, and are properly supporting and updating their plugins to be stable.

Annoyingly, because of macOS releasing new versions every year, there IS a requirement for developers to constantly update and support their software, and I don’t actually mind paying a bit extra if I can have the assurances that it’s going to work reliably (as opposed to becoming abandonware). Apple has pulled the rug many times in the past, and I’m sure they will continue to do so. Also, users of Pro Tools need aax versions which have their own hoops for developers to jump through.

Legit points!

Please read the following with a grain of salt, or try and skip if you're prone to triggers and love your QC.

It's nothing but my personal opinion/point of view, keep that in mind!

Regarding divisive-ness, maybe because it entered an already well-established and saturated market with some bold-ass marketing claims that some fell for, while others saw through the BS.

I can only speak for myself, but it makes me f**k angry when naive folks buy snake oil, colloidal silver, Grander water, and similar...

Of course, the QC is a decent device, and the above comparison is absurdly exaggerated, but there's a lot of marketing "wizardry" surrounding it, some of which clearly overpromising when it comes to features, future updates, etc.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

Legit points!

Please read the following with a grain of salt, or try and skip if you're prone to triggers and love your QC.

It's nothing but my personal opinion/point of view, keep that in mind!

Regarding divisive-ness, maybe because it entered an already well-established and saturated market with some bold-ass marketing claims that some fell for, while others saw through the BS.

I can only speak for myself, but it makes me f**k angry when naive folks buy snake oil, colloidal silver, Grander water, and similar...

Of course, the QC is a decent device, and the above comparison is absurdly exaggerated, but there's a lot of marketing "wizardry" surrounding it, some of which clearly overpromising when it comes to features, future updates, etc.

(not sure if the above is aimed at me or generally) I don’t have a QC so I don’t have a dog in the fight either way. I just don’t think it’s that big of a deal - people can easily search online and see what’s going on and make their own decisions on whether it’s a suitable purchase for them or not.

Worst case someone buys something and ends up selling it - not like that doesn’t go on constantly with music gear anyway.

Basically every piece of equipment that is available for sale has bold claims. I can even think of TONS of gear that has ports for implementing updates that never even got used.

I’ve posted stuff before about Amplifube’s marketing claims (of which I am a customer), and that isn’t even promising things about future updates, it’s about existing tech that was used to sell the product at launch. And, even still, no one at IK is prepared to explain what those claims even mean. It’s just par for the course, it’s a competitive marketplace and (unfortunately) clamouring for attention is important. I can’t say I’m a fan of it, but I also don’t expect anything different. I’m pretty sure Slate Digital said new VMR modules would get added to their subscription every month, it never got remotely close to that.

If i’m going to piss my panties over gear, I’d rather complain about gear I do own, and either something (eventually) gets done about it, or it gets sold. The brand tribalism and chest puffing/smugness of some to me is just as bad as dumbass marketing waffle.

 

[Aleksi]

Yes! Now you too can capture your amps perfectly with our proprietary Biomimetic AI technology using our proprietary Helixmimetic UI technology!

 

[Mongillo19]

Set up a quick preset,

You wild man. Isn't in against nature to setup a preset before a show

 

[TubeStack]

You wild man. Isn't in against nature to setup a preset before a show

(Maybe on a Fractal. )

 

[JiveTurkey]

(Maybe on a Fractal. )

 

[Achilles]

I can't wait until the new Neural-gate when people complain that the plug-ins inside the QC sound different than the standalone plugins that they are using with their dedicated audio interfaces. "the gain doesn't sound the same....."

100% GUARANTEED

You could bet your house on it.

 

[Mongillo19]

What’s the alternative…make presets way before ..and actually stick to those and be happy with it?….don’t sound feasible to me

I wasn't trying to start an argument. I was always under the impression people tended to dial in their patches (for any unit) during practice and then tweak as needed depending on the show/room you were playing in the moment.

Don't have to stick to said presets but I imagine having one you know sounds good in a loud environment lessens the chances for things to go wrong day of.

Making a preset right at the show without any idea how it sounds with your group (if in a band, no idea what you are doing) sounds less feasible to me

But I've never used a digital device live

 

[Mongillo19]

That's totally fair! Who am I to question someone who actually gets out there and plays live!

 

[laxu]

I’m gonna look for a smaller board for just the QC and the Halo probably…and put the rest on a satellite as an optional add on.

Get one of the CME WIDI Jack boxes and plug that into the QC MIDI ports. Then use a USB powerbank for the M2. Fully wireless MIDI control!

 

[mbenigni]

The thing is while 3.0 adds plug-in compatibility on the QC, it’s not really the finish line for plugins if only 4 of them are actually portable. So as much as we’d like to look at 3.0 as the finish line, they still have another 18 or so plugins to update.

This is what I've been on (and on, and on, and on) about from the beginning. NDSP's approach was never going to result in "QC Plugin Compatibility" per se, but merely "QC-Compatible Plugin Compatibility". Which will always be a work in progress.

(I just had that weird thing where "compatibility" doesn't sound like a word anymore.)

 

[mbenigni]

If they release a Cortex Native (seriously, they are going to rip off that name too?) plugin, that would make sense because they have already oversaturated the market with all those Archetype plugins so probably the sales figures from any new ones don't look as good unless they can attach some really big name to it. Wouldn't be surprised if NDSP give QC owners a discount on the plugin too like Line6 does.

NDSP plugins are already priced at levels that don't really appeal, as the prices have gone up from 99 € to 119 € for most plugins. That 99 € mark was IMO pretty crucial. By comparison e.g ML Sound Lab is still in the 40-99 € range because they can keep that easier as a 2 person company vs NDSP with 50+ people.

Yep. Much as I'd prefer a QC Native* plugin over their current a la carte model (and now this tail-wagging-dog paradigm of buying plugin content for one's hardware modeler), I don't see how they could get there without a) charging a fortune for it, or b) completely undermining revenue from their current line of Archetypes, etc. etc.

*Aside: I don't think "ripping off" this name even bears mentioning, really. "Native" is as much part of the common vernacular as "plugin". If anything, everyone is ripping off Native Instruments, and even that's a stretch.

 

[mbenigni]

Prone to noise, the overall grounding of the device isn’t done very well. I’ve recorded them in the studio a few times and almost every time as soon as it’s powered up, something will start humming. Easy enough to fix but it’s definitely a design flaw

I think you're probably making a valid point regarding the overall grounding of the device, but I'm still not convinced that the PSU itself has anything to do with it.

 

[laxu]

Nice option….not sure if the added latency would allow wahwahcontrol…is assume no…

CME claims 3ms latency so maybe. I don't own an expression pedal atm so can't test.

 

[mbenigni]

+1. Besides some notable outliers (Tom Morello and Granophyre, for exampe), pretty much all plugins are small variants on the exact same set of amps.

I think this will be way more notable on the FX side though. Once people are able to load plugins in their QCs, they will able to very easily A/B them.

I just really hope NDSP doesn't release these plugins with partial content, e.g. amps but no effects.