NAM: Neural Amp Modeler

People see numbers and immediately skip reading, such a shame, it is actually super easy and well worth the results.
 
James Freeman said:
the capture itself will be identical to my capture if we both use 12dBu as reference signal.
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I don't actually think that is true. There are plenty of other things that will affect the sound of an amp other than the level going into it - capacitance, noise-floor, impedance loading, etc.

It would be good to know levels from a performance or usage perspective. But I wouldn't expect it to introduce/improve any consistency as such.
 
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Just made a post in their facebook group, needs approving though. Genuinely curious what the reaction will be - it’s definitely got a bit more volatile there as the numbers have rocketed up.

I have a feeling the vast majority won’t understand
 
James Freeman said:
People see numbers and immediately skip reading, such a shame, it is actually super easy and well worth the results.
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I'd imagine the input signal gets normalized regardless prior to inference. I'll check the repo for something like standardscaler in there.
 
imperator said:
I'd imagine the input signal gets normalized regardless prior to inference. I'll check the repo for something like standardscaler in there.
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You basically have to normalize the data for neural network training.

But that isn't what James is referring to. He's referring to the signal hitting the front of the amplifier.
 
James Freeman said:
Yes and 400$ in my pocket...
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the swede said:
I can step in here, as a total noob on profiling/capturing whatever. I have no amps.

But consider this. All the tech talk aside.

Leo clearly proves to me, just me and my own preferences.

That 90% of what every one is talking about… simply does not matter (to me).

All 5 examples sound good and I could sit and play any of them with the sole intention of playing guitar and having a good time enjoying music, and be totally clueless about what is real or not, better than whatever or worse than whatever. Because the differences (yes I heard differences between all examples) simply does not matter to me.

I already know and decided that profiling/capturing is not for me. I’m happy enough with amp modeling as it is, cheap or expensive. So I can’t really contribute anything to discussions down to details that are discussed here other than offer you all another perspective on things. :)

Your scientific discussions. They are interesting to read, even to me. I appreciate that.

So the difference between Tonex and NAM would come down to other factors for me.

If I had to, the Tonex wins as it’s a hardware pedal that a noob like me actually can use.
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James Freeman said:
Okay so I've been testing a few JCM800 captures from ToneHunt.
My experience is there is no gain or sound consistency whatsoever, might as well be two totally random amps, the reason is probably people are capturing at completely arbitrary re-amp levels, moreover, if there's no detailed notes I have no idea what the amp settings were, what load was used, or if it was a real amp at all.
The only captures I 100% trust and know they are accurate are my own.
I still very much prefer modeling because I have full control and know exactly what's going on.
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northern_fox said:
Exactly the curse of A/B/C comparisons - they make us place far too much emphasis on things that actually don't really matter in anything but comparisons. Whatever fits your use case the best is the way to go. The real truth is, there is no "best" and you should play what makes you the happiest.


Yep, it's gonna vary wildly based on all kinds of things, which mirrors my experience with kemper / tonex / QC. Some people (myself included) try to make collections or packs for a specific amp though, which does help narrow the focus a little, as well as documenting everything about the settings and gear. Steve's adding metadata to the nam files - and IF people fill that out, it will be helpful for informing UI instances like plugin or tonehunt. But it is what it is for now and just sort of the nature of the beast. Helps getting to know the names of creators that do good work and starting there vs diving into the abyss too, since there are a lot of people who really know what they're doing. Output level normalization is being considered too, which would balance the capture playback levels better.

Captures from tim robertson, jon arnold, helga behrens, philip priss, emile rohbe for example

A few good spots:

NAM_JonathanArnold – Google Drive

drive.google.com drive.google.com

JZ NAM Models – Google Drive

drive.google.com drive.google.com

NAM Models - PippPriss – Google Drive

drive.google.com drive.google.com

Lots should / will be on tonehunt, but I just have these handy from my bookmarks
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Look ... there's no pretty way to say this .... but if people are going to insist on posting messages that are factual, reasonable, considered, objective, accurate and totally lacking any fan-boi'ing ..... well ... then ..... what hope is there ;)

All the best,
Ben
 
James Freeman said:
You can use a buffered pedal after the reamp box and forget about capacitance and impedance matching.

How I do it:
PC -> Reamp Box -> 25k Volume Pot -> Buffer -> Amp.
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Yeah I know that. Not everyone does. So right there and then, you've expanded the scope of your guide ;)
But IMHO there's always gonna be differences, even with the same amp. So you can aim at some standards, which would be cool, but I wouldn't necessarily expect more consistency to fall out of the other end of it.

FWIW, I've captured the same amp with the same settings using a Kemper, and had different results in each time. Inconsistencies in the refining stage don't help either. It's quite maddening tbh, and to me is one of the big pitfalls with the Kemper.

I think noise-floor might be something to do with it, and the gaussian nature of noise causing micro-shifts in the entire frequency response of the rig, which ends up pushing the neural network weights in one direction or another. That's my layman's take on it anyway.

I also had plenty of times where the thing would announce that the amp has a built in noise-gate when it didn't, and same amp and same settings and everything, it would suddenly not show that message.
 
BenIfin said:
Look ... there's no pretty way to say this .... but if people are going to insist on posting messages that are factual, reasonable, considered, objective, accurate and totally lacking any fan-boi'ing ..... well ... then ..... what hope is there ;)

All the best,
Ben
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You have the freedom to be the exact opposite if you want, if you feel hopeless.
 
Orvillain said:
But IMHO there's always gonna be differences, even with the same amp.
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Yes, you're right, I'm not saying they should phase cancel or anything, just mitigate some of the gain randomness and the nonsense we've seen on youtube lately.
One geartuber has to boost his captures by 15dB for them to match the amp gain... you're doing it wrong buddy.
 
James Freeman said:
Okay so I've been testing a few JCM800 captures from ToneHunt.
My experience is there is no gain or sound consistency whatsoever, might as well be two totally random amps, the reason is probably people are capturing at completely arbitrary re-amp levels, moreover, if there's no detailed notes I have no idea what the amp settings were, what load was used, or if it was a real amp at all.
The only captures I 100% trust and know they are accurate are my own.
I still very much prefer modeling because I have full control and know exactly what's going on.
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Hey James !

I don't know if you think this might be part of the issue or not (?) but setting up an amp and a guitar for a good live tone -or- a good recording tone are not only 2 very different things, but are also not as easy as some think.

It takes, time, experience and knowledge of not only how to do things correctly, but also very importantly, having high quality gear and knowing how to set up that gear, mics, rooms, signal chains etc. properly. Even doing a D.I Capture requires most of these same skills, sans the mic and room.

I personally think the only Capture's that anyone can totally trust as being authentic-to-the-amp-being-used are (a) the ones you do yourself and (b) the ones you buy from trusted reputable makers who own the actual amps ie:- Amalgam, TJ, Jason Sadites etc. and hopefully soon, people like Michael Britt.

That's not to say there aren't "other" good Captures in NAM or Tonex land - but there seem to be a lot of people who all of a sudden "own" Dumbles, Two Rocks, 1964 AC30's, Original mint Plexi's, classic 60's Fenders, MarkIIB Boogies etc. I just don't believe them - and there is no way to verify or trust anything they are saying and posting / listing for Capture downloading.

Ben
 
BenIfin said:
Just wanted to clarify that my post was intended to show that I %100 agree with every point you and the others made (y)

All the best,
Ben
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I know :giggle: and my response in wich I forgot to add a funny smile, was meant as an ironic response to yours. It’s all good 👍
 
BenIfin said:
Hey James !

I don't know if you think this might be part of the issue or not (?) but setting up an amp and a guitar for a good live tone -or- a good recording tone are not only 2 very different things, but are also not as easy as some think.

It takes, time, experience and knowledge of not only how to do things correctly, but also very importantly, having high quality gear and knowing how to set up that gear, mics, rooms, signal chains etc. properly. Even doing a D.I Capture requires most of these same skills, sans the mic and room.

I personally think the only Capture's that anyone can totally trust as being authentic-to-the-amp-being-used are (a) the ones you do yourself and (b) the ones you buy from trusted reputable makers who own the actual amps ie:- Amalgam, TJ, Jason Sadites etc. and hopefully soon, people like Michael Britt.

That's not to say there aren't "other" good Captures in NAM or Tonex land - but there seem to be a lot of people who all of a sudden "own" Dumbles, Two Rocks, 1964 AC30's, Original mint Plexi's, classic 60's Fenders, MarkIIB Boogies etc. I just don't believe them - and there is no way to verify or trust anything they are saying and posting / listing for Capture downloading.

Ben
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Like for legible post ♥️
 
Orvillain said:
Most people should be murdered.
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90 Day Fiance Dancing GIF by Cameo
 
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